Frankly speaking: Q&A with Pixies' Frank Black BY GEORGE VARGA WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, 2010 AT 6.PM.
Frank Black is, as was once said of both Iggy Pop and former San Diegan Joe Walsh, an interesting bunch of fellows.
No, the leader of indie-rock pioneers the Pixies, in which he is better known by fans as Black Francis, doesn’t have multiple personalities. But he is a multifaceted musician who is constantly re-examining his thoughts, sometimes seemingly in mid-sentence, as he discusses his enormously influential band (which he launched in Boston in 1986, broke up in 1992, reunited in 2004 and plays with here Sunday at UCSD’s RIMAC Arena).
If his constant self-reflection means contradicting himself during a 45-minute phone interview, so be it.
Case in point: Despite numerous well- documented reports to the contrary over the past 15 years, he insists there’s no tension between the Pixies’ members — bassist-singer Kim Deal, lead guitarist Joey Santiago, drummer David Lovering and singer-guitarist Black (real name: Charles Michael Kitteridge Thompson IV).
“We get along great. We always got along great,” Black said. He blames claims to the contrary on lazy journalists who thought, Black charged, “there might be tension in the band” and wrote as much. “The problem is,” he said, “it’s not a correct angle.”
Why, then, did The Pixies implode in late 1992 (a breakup Black first disclosed in a radio interview, before any of the band’s other members knew about it)?
“I have no idea why,” he said. “Because that’s what bands do. Every good band gets about five years before it self-implodes. But if you looked at every band, you could find a whole bunch that last five years before something traumatic happens. And that’s just because people get sick of each other.”
Cited as a key influence by the late Kurt Cobain — who described Nirvana’s 1991 breakthrough hit, “Smells Like Teen Spirit,” as a “Pixies rip-off” — the Black-led band is now on the second leg of a world tour that finds it performing, in order, every song from its landmark 1989 album, “Doolittle.”
But with no new songs or album on the horizon, do the Pixies risk becoming an alt-rock nostalgia act?
“That is eventually what happens,” Black said. “And you just have to ask yourself: ‘Do you want to go there, and do you get away with it?’ ... I hope that, whatever we end up doing, it’s deep and not a medley of mediocrity.”
DETAILS
The Pixies
When: Sunday, 8 p.m.
Where: RIMAC Arena, UCSD, 9500 Gilman Drive, La Jolla
Tickets: $55.30
Phone: (800) 745-3000
Online: ticketmaster.com
FRANK BLACK: THE COMPLETE Q&A
Q: Where are you right now?
A: I’m in the family van, driving my kids.
Q: Are there any similarities between being in a van with your family and with a band?
A: There are many dynamics which are similar, like peeing and snacking, and trying to find out where you’re going to
Q: To begin with, have you done more interviews than you might ever care to recall?
A: Well, fortunately, if that’s the truth I don’t recall them all, so that’s not a problem. Some person said to me the other day – a yoga instructor -- she said: ‘Are you (Frank Black)?’I said: ‘Yeah.’ She said: ‘I think I interviewed you years ago, for such and such a magazine.’ And I was like: ‘Oh, yeah.’ I had no recollection whatsoever. (laughs) ‘Oh, yeah, I remember that time! I can hear it in your voice!’
Q: Are you a fan of bebop?
A: I’m a fan of music and of jazz records and certain jazz musicians, and some of them are bebop people. But I can’t get too genre specific, like: ‘Oh, yeah, I love punk-rock.’ Because some of it’s great, and some of it ain’t. Or: ‘I love that Country & Western music.’ Yeah, some songs I love, and some I do not. Thelonious Monk is considered a bebopper.
Q: Well, the reason I ask is that I once asked (bebop drum great) Max Roach…
A: I saw him play when I was in college.
Q: Lucky you. He was pretty amazing. Anyhow -- and not to make an apples and oranges comparison, because I wouldn’t put the Pixies’ music on the level of bebop – but I asked Max Roach if, when he and Charlie Parker and Monk, and the rest of them were creating bebop and revolutionizing contemporary music, they realized just how revolutionary it was. Or if they were too busy doing it to be able to stand back and have that kind of perspective about its potential impact. And he said they were too busy doing it. So, again, it’s an apples and oranges comparison, but when the Pixies made the “Doolittle” album in 1989, did you have any idea that it would have the kind of impact it did?
A: You know, at that particular time, or even now, I don’t really thing about it in terms of, well, you have the hope it will remain ‘in print,’ as they say. I don’t think the long term lasting impact bounces in your brain; you just want to make a cool record and put it out. They are not religious (songs). I’m not trying to start a revolution. I think it’s always safely (judged) in perspective. No matter how emotional I get about the Velvet Underground or The Beatles, at the end of the day, it’s a bunch of dudes with guitars and that keeps it real for me.
Q: Listening to your music from back then now, are you happy with it or do you hear little tweaks you want to make or arrangements you wish you would have fleshed out or pared down?
A: It depends on which recording session you’re talking about. Sometimes, it’s like: ‘Let’s erase this and add a little shading and light here and fiddle with it. Other times, it’s: ‘No, this is the way it fell out of the box, let’s not touch it.’
Q: So, which was it in the case of ‘Doolittle?’
A: I think there was enough of a skeletal impression left over from the demos for the record that all the nuance and subtlety was left to the producer, Gil Norton. I had worked enough on the blueprint that I didn’t think about the nuances, although a lot got added, textural stuff that producers think about, (like) echo.
Q: Does anything surprise you now about ‘Doolittle?’
A: Yeah. Let’s see. Considering how much at the time it seemed like we were producing this record, I’m surprised how close were able to create it (live on stage), just as a four piece band. Obviously we can’t add doubled vocals or that kind of thing. It’s not a multilayered record, it’s not (The Beatles’) ‘Sgt Peppers.’ It’s more about a four-piece band exploring the landscape in the recording studio.
Q: The Pixies are now on a world tour that finds the band performing the ‘Doolittle’ album in its entirety each night. Does the audience reaction vary in different countries?
A: Not during the ‘Doolittle’ performance shows. They seem to be responding, I wouldn’t say the same to every song, but certainly to songs like ‘Tame’ or ‘Debaser.’ I suppose there’s an A list or a B list, but they seem to be pretty happy with all of them.
Q: You are 21 years older now than when ‘Doolittle’ came out. Does that impact the way you sing these songs now or the way you inflect the lyrics? Do you have to think back to how you felt then and try to get in the same mindset?
A: I’m a performer. I’m a (song) writer. But after I’m done writing it, I perform it, so it’s not method acting. I don’t need to get into some kind of intense head space to be able to perform it. It’s not like I imagine acting to be. (To his son in the van: ‘Hey, Jackson! That’s honey.’) There’s not a lot of trying to connect the past, or the future, or the meaning of ridiculous songs. It’s open (to interpretation). It’s not: ‘Whenever I play this song, I always think about this.’ It’s not like that for me.
Q: Memory can be selective. I recall both Ringo Starr and Paul McCartney telling me in separate interviews that, when they were working on The Beatles’ ‘Anthology’ TV special and DVD, they remembered The Beatles playing at Shea Stadium the first time in 1965, but neither of them remembered The Beatles also played there a second time in 1966. How similarly, or not, have you found that you and the other members of the Pixies recall shared band experiences from the past?
A: Well, it certainly doesn’t matter in the overall scheme of things. Some of our memories are the same, some of ours are different. Some of us remember certain things and forget other things. I suppose whatever Shea Stadiums we have in our collective memories are probably are just like (those of) The Beatles. We remember the first time we played Shea, not the second. I wish I could tell you that is the case for me.
Q: I didn’t know the Pixies played at Shea Stadium.
A: We played at Shea Stadium, opening for The Cure and Love & Rockets. It was great. I remember the gates opening and a sea of Goth kids with white pancake makeup streaming into the stadium. (To his son: ‘Jackson, could you not sing right now?’)
Q: What do you and your son sing together?
A: Mostly songs we make up or, lately, the ‘ABC’ song a lot, because one of my kids is very determined to learn all his alphabet letters. So we’ve been dong that one a lot, so that he can bone up a lot.
Q: ‘Doolittle’ was an iconic album for a good number of young people in the late 1980s. What were your iconic albums when you were a teenager?
A: You know, when I was 17 or 18, it was Elvis Costello’s ‘This Year’s Model’; Jim Hendrix ‘s ‘Are You Experienced?’; anything by The Beatles; anything by Bob Dylan; the first Violent Femmes record.
Q:Any Bob Dylan album? Even ‘New Morning?’
A: Not that one! (Laughs) I have it, but…(laughs again)
Q: We’re coming up on the 40th anniversary of the death of Jimi Hendrix. What impact has he had on you and is there anything you care to say about his legacy?
A: I don’t know if I have anything poignant to say. He’s really, really, really, really, really, really good, as one of my kids would say. You can analyze it and talk about it. But at the end of the day, it’s really good. That’s why people are still talking about him. He cut his teeth (playing blues and R&B) on the chitlin’ circuit. To cut your teeth there and end up playing rock.. . There’s not a bad one in the bunch (of the albums Hendrix made).
Q: In your opinion, is artistic tension overrated or underrated as an impetus for making music?
A: In those situations where artistic tension bears good fruit, it’s important. But you can’t carve that into stone, because there are going to be exceptions to that. You’ll find situations where there’s a lot of creative getting along, not tension, and you do something good. Conversely, you can say that, in this scenario, these people had a lot of creative tension and came up with a really crappy record. It’s what happens when you have tension and what you do with it that matters. There’s no rule. Anytime you come up with a rule, there will be an exception to the rule. People are very individualistic.
I mean, how do you explain a one- hit wonder? ‘Oh, yeah: The so and so’s put out six records. They are all pretty lame, but to this day there’s one song the world rallies around on oldies radio. Something happened that day.’ I don’t know. A lot of it is kind of mysterious.
Q: How are the Pixies getting along?
A: We get along great. We always got along great.
Q: Really?
A: Having said that, you can’t get along great very day. Much has been made about us not getting along, but that’s because people can’t pin us down. There’s not really an angle on the band .There isn’t a strong visual representation of the band (because) we have no image. (Writers wonder:) ‘What can we say about those guys?’ ‘Oh, we suspect there might be some tension in the band.’
Perfect. Finally, you have a damn angle on these guys The problem is that it’s not an angle. It’s not a correct angle. It’s because certain writers, over the years, have been so hell-bent on finding an angle that when they finally did, they elevated it to this position that is out of whack. I’m not criticizing you. I’m addressing the myth.
Q: Might they have done this because it’s generally easier to write about personalities than music?
A: Well, I do have empathy for the journalists. I don’t think they’re all knuckleheads. You’re writing about something that’s really intangible. First of all, it’s (writing about) sound, period. (Laughs.) So you’re talking about something you literally cannot hang your hat on (in words). Some of it is subjective and kind of a really slippery, slidey thing, so it’s hard to analyze it, to analyze something so wrapped up in people’s feelings. So they do have my empathy.
I remember I did an interview once with a very famous writer – I was interviewing the writer and I was struck by how fake and shallow my own voice and words and questions sounded. I was awestruck at how shallow and how lame I was. Because I had never done a lot of interviews (being) on the interviewer side of the fence, and it’s hard. It’s easy to get frustrated when you’re getting interviewed, and to go: ‘Oh no, no, no! That’s not it, you don’t get it. Don’t you see it?’ It’s so obvious to me. But 99 out of 100 times, I’m being interviewed, so I’m stuck there.
Q: How is your Spanish?
A: It ain’t fluent. But it goes beyond (ordering in) the Mexican restaurant. As they say in Spanish: ‘Bastante’ -- enough for the streets.
Q: Well, are you practicing your Spanish so that you can say things to the audiences when the Pixies’ tour goes to Latin America later this year?
A: I don’t say anything to the audience, especially at Pixies gigs -- more so at Pixies gigs
Q: Why not?
A: Because they can’t understand what you’re saying anyway. It upsets the balance between Kim (Deal) and I. Kim does say a few things to the audience and gets a big goo-ga reaction. I decided not to mess with that. because I don’t get the goo-gaa response when I speak to the audience. So it works a lot better to let her speak. And I whisper and scream and shout in the songs, and get to be the man of mystery. You can’t be the man of mystery and open up your trap.
Q: In a 2008 interview with NME, you were quoted as saying about the Pixies: “…whatever we do in the future has to be fresh… it can’t be just playing our old songs over and over.” Earlier this year, you told another interviewer: “I’ve done the arty farty part. Now it’s time to talk about the money.” Are those two quotes accurate?
A: No. I would say any quote you can find of mine is probably at least 10 percent inaccurate. There’s always something about interviews that is inaccurate, so both of those sound a little inaccurate or taken out of context. I’m sort of shocked at how inaccurate I come off in interviews and how inaccurate they usually. You usually can spot inaccuracy, not because you spotted it in something made up or of a blatantly (inaccurate) nature, but because you can recognize your own syntax and grammar.
So when a writer or an editor, more likely, had been messing around with my grammar and syntax, I recognize it immediately. ‘Wait a minute! There’s something wrong here. I didn’t say it like that. I would never even use that word in a sentence. I know what that word means, but it’s not my first choice‘
So people end up rewriting everything I say. When it’s English to English – it’s alright that the French interviewer has to translate what I’m saying into French. In English, there’s no reason to change my quote (just) because you think it sounds nicer.
Q: So is there any fresh material in the Pixies’ future?
A: I don’t know.
Q: What would it hinge on?
A: Umm, it’s difficult to say. There’s not any one particular set of conditions. It hasn’t happened yet for 50 different reasons.
Q: Is that good, bad, frustrating?
A: All of the above.
Q: Without new songs and a new album, do the Pixies tun risk of becoming a nostalgia act?
A: Well, yeah, that’s a definite reality.
That is eventually what happens and you just have to ask yourself: ‘Do you want to go there, and do you get away with it?' I haven’t been to a Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young show before, but that’s the question you have to find out. After your experience, if it was a mind-blowing experience, then (good). I’ve seen X before and they are very true to form. They sound like X, the renditions of the songs are great and you don’t come away saying: ‘That was oldie fogey (music).’
Because -- it’s just what they do with it. Sometimes, you see other performers who haven’t put out a (new) record for years and years, and, yeah, it comes off as not that deep or something. I hope that whatever we end up doing, that it’s deep and not a medley of mediocrity.
Q: Is there a dichotomy between rock and blues and jazz? In blues and jazz, it’s expected that you get better as you get older, and rock is still considered a young person’s game.
A: I don’t really know. We just play and if it feels good to be playing, we say: ‘Yes.’ I suppose if it ever feels tired, hopefully we’ll have enough respect for the repertoire to say: ‘Yeah, it’s kind of tired.’
Q: Why did the Pixies stop being a band the first time around?
A: I have no idea why. Because that’s what bands do. Every good band gets about 5 years before it self- implodes. Now, some bands socially break up and some stop dong their thing for a while. But if you looked at every band, you could find a whole bunch that lasts 5 years before something traumatic happens, and that’s just because people get sick of each other.
Q: So are you the Neil Young of the Pixies, in that Crosby, Stills & Nash only get back together for tours if Neil Young wants to, and the others don’t really have a say in the matter?
A: Yeah, the Pixies have covered him a couple of times.
Q: But isn’t it true the Pixies only re-group if you want to do so, the same as CSNY only gets back together when Neil Young wants to?
A: I guess I’m the one that officially said: ‘Hey, let’s get back together.’ I don’t know if that makes me Neil Young, just like it doesn’t turn them into CSNY. Were the Pixies, not CSNY.
Q: I don’t know if you’re a fan of Richard Thompson, but he was approached very early on to join The Eagles. When I asked him if he regretted turning them down, he said: ‘No. Have you ever seen a picture of The Eagles smiling?’ How good a time are you having?
A: You mean with my solo records? (To his kids: ‘Guys, can you be quiet? I’m almost done with this.’)
Q: With your solo albums, and with the Pixies.
A: I don’t know. (Laughs) You’re asking me how happy I am on the happy meter. It all depends on what side of bed I got out of. (Laughs again) Some days, it’s a three, some days a nine. Sometimes, it seems very meaningful. And on other days, it’s: ‘Is this worth anything? Does it mean anything? On other days, you’re on a mission from God. That’s my personality. So, when someone asks me: ‘How happy are you, on a scale from 1-10?’ I have no idea.
Q: What’s the worst day job you ever had?
A: I haven’t had that many day jobs. But one day at my day job, I needed to get my check cashed and I did clean out the clogged-up sink that was underneath the butcher’s area at a supermarket. So it was like being in the third rung of hell, deep beneath the store. You can imagine how putrid it was.
Q: I’m a little confused. How did doing that get your check cashed faster?
A: Because they couldn’t find anyone else in the store who could do it. I said: ‘Well, I’ll do it.’ I didn’t know what they wanted done. I had my own agenda. See, I could have been a millionaire if I didn’t get into the music business. I sensed there was an opportunity for our two agendas to convene.
Q: Did you get a song out of it?
A: No. Because it frequently comes up in conversation: ‘One time I was going to the store, and blah, blah, blah…’ Whenever someone asks you if were able to get a song out of a personal experience, I can say, flat out, it couldn’t be the furthest thing from my mind. I don’t know why that is.
Q: The reason I ask is that a very good San Diego singer-songwriter recently played a song inspired by her long-ago job in Alaska, where she wiped down freshly caught fish.
A: What becomes a song isn’t necessarily what you think becomes a song. I’m amazed how many people will say: ‘I guess you’ll get a good song out of that.’
Q: I’ve learned to try and verify everything I read. Was the Pixies’ song ‘Alison’ named after Mose Allison?
A: Yes.
Q: When all is said and done, how would you like to be remembered?
A: How? Oh, you know, I just don’t think like that. In the Chinese zodiac, I’m what is called a snake. And a snake can only respond in the present. The hypothetical messes the snake up. It does not compute.
That’s why it drives me up the wall when people ask me: ‘If you could pick four different musicians to be in your super-group, the ultimate band, whom would you pick?’ I can’t think like that and don’t want to. I refuse. Refuse!
