| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TRANSMARINE |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 11:13:36
Maybe only because it's the only thing I've been listening to for the past 6 weeks, but does anyone else notice the hissing of the obvious vocal track? Especially in the intro of TPB (when Frank mumbles "stations of the cross" and then his humming just prior to "breathing mask...") and the "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" at the start of CAPTAIN PASTY? It's beginning to annoy me. Hope this hasn't been covered already. And if it has, well, whatever happened with this?
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jefrey |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 01:28:01
quote:
Originally posted by Born to Lose
Thalassocracy sounds punk influenced to me.
Sigh. Jeez, this has gotten way off topic. Punk influenced is not the same as punk. Punk spawned a whole slew of sub-genres and new genres. Again, I really don't care that much, but there is a historical context for these terms.
Wikipedia it up. In fact here's the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock
Learn your rock history in 3 minutes.
I'm not trying to be an ass - all these categories are created so we can talk about music, but most artists hate being thrown into a bucket because it pigeonholes them.
But any way you look at it, the album TOTY is probably best defined as "alternative pop" in the grand scheme of things. Certainly punk-influenced as Pixies were somewhere between post-punk and alternative. And I'd say Frank Black was probably influenced by the Pixies ;)
== jeffamerica == |
| floop |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 16:04:17
quote:
Originally posted by Grotesque
Then finaly, I remember having seen Frank Black in Paris for the Teenager of The Year tour, with Feldman, and the band was really frightening. Anarchy. All the songs, even the soft ones, were played like "Nazi Punk Fuck Off",
as an aside
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jz1sBi0-130&mode=related&search=
Do you think Bluefinger was intended to be a Pixies album? |
| Grotesque |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 14:48:51
quote:
Originally posted by Jefrey
Pong is punk? I'd say "quirky pop" or "alternative". What's punk about it? Maybe France has a different definition of punk?
== jeffamerica ==
Dead Kens (especially the stuff on "In God We Trust Inc.")
Husker Du ("Land Speed Record")
Minutemen ("Paranoid Time", "The Punch Line"...)
Banana Melt (I'm not crazy about them but they're surely punk)
Pixies (especially a song like Rock Music)
This stuff sounds quite close to Pong to me.
Crazy breaks, crazy energy, shouts. I'm not precisely speaking about Green Day there.
Session players?
I know Eric Drew Feldman doesnt look like a punk at first look, but we're talking bout a guy who played with CAPTAIN BEEFHEART on some of his best records. If Don Van Vliet is not the king of punks...
Then finaly, I remember having seen Frank Black in Paris for the Teenager of The Year tour, with Feldman, and the band was really frightening. Anarchy. All the songs, even the soft ones, were played like "Nazi Punk Fuck Off", a bit like Dinosaur Jr live ("but... wasnt this a bit pop on the record?"). Then one year later with the "cult of ray" band (still Workman but the catholics on rythm section). It was surely rocknroll, but not that crazy anarchy.
Maybe they were more punk in the sense of the Ramones, that I can believe.
Last Minute Edit: Hey, anyway, isnt "Pong" a tribute (musically and lyricaly) to the song "Whatever happend to..." by the Buzzcocks ? |
| trobrianders |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 08:00:17
Doesn't TOTY sound like that because of Lyle? Joey played to sex and death, Lyle played to sky and stars, Rich played to the god of rock. I love them all but I'm happiest when Charles' chain-bell guitar stylings are to the fore.
_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo |
| Born to Lose |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 06:33:15
Thalassocracy sounds punk influenced to me. |
| Jefrey |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 17:39:30
Punk is usually defined as fuck the establishment, and often political or social commentary. Also usually DIY style or at least not professionally trained musicians. People that started a band to make a point and send a message.
Early Pixies are more punk (or post-punk). TOTY is a full on studio album with session players - it's not punk.
I don't really care about categories - it's all disco baby. But if you're going to throw something in a genre bucket, I would have to strongly argue that there is nothing "punk" about TOTY.
== jeffamerica == |
| Czar |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 16:04:55
Well, I'm sure that Pong played live is much more "punk" (whatever that means) than on TOTY. TOTY, compared to BF anyway, is over-produced, thus (more) sterile. And for having seen The Catholics play Czar, I can say I felt punk.
I love TOTY btw. |
| Jefrey |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 15:51:57
Pong is punk? I'd say "quirky pop" or "alternative". What's punk about it? Maybe France has a different definition of punk?
== jeffamerica == |
| TRANSMARINE |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 14:33:05
Humboldt County Massacre is pretty damn fuckin punk.
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 14:11:49
Angst is the first one I can think of it
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| Grotesque |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 11:26:40
quote:
Originally posted by Jefrey
I kind of agree - I think TOTY is starting to sound a bit dated. I have great memories of it, but lately when I try to listen to it, it sounds...yeah sterile is probably the right word. No rock 'n' roll soul like with the Catholics.
I think the first one still sounds great.
== jeffamerica ==
Did the catholics ever made a song as punk as Pong ? Maybe crazy hardcore punk rocks too hard to be named "rock'n'roll" ?. |
| Czar |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 03:55:54
Jefrey, you are perfectly right. Sterile. Brilliant but sterile compared to Catholics and BF stuff. |
| Jefrey |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 14:05:56
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Perfect pop song or not the first 2 FB albums sounds a bit sterile sometimes. I like the sound
on DITS and SMYT the best, although a nice recorded album like Doolittle from time to time is good also. At the end of the day the quality of the writing is the most important.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I kind of agree - I think TOTY is starting to sound a bit dated. I have great memories of it, but lately when I try to listen to it, it sounds...yeah sterile is probably the right word. No rock 'n' roll soul like with the Catholics.
I think the first one still sounds great.
== jeffamerica == |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 14:03:24
Perfect pop song or not the first 2 FB albums sounds a bit sterile sometimes. I like the sound
on DITS and SMYT the best, although a nice recorded album like Doolittle from time to time is good also. At the end of the day the quality of the writing is the most important.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| Jefrey |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 14:00:06
quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
quote:
Originally posted by Grotesque
quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
Since the lyrics in BLUEFINGER's case are not "live to two-track" (I hate to even use that phrase, because it's only causing confusion), any extraneous voices and weird things are concsiously and purposely PUT there.
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN
Why do you think we dont understand what you mean? The contradiction you see between multitracking and accidents is just not obvious for everybody. You can do multitracking with the same raw spirit as a live to 2 tracks. I see (or hear) Bluefinger just that way. The rythms are obviously very live, with speed changes (very welcomed in the "jazzy" parts), shouts, noises and everything. Just the oposite of the orange albums and its rythm tracks created by a computer.
Frank Black must be a very unpicky listener. He certainly care about the feelings and few about "the sound of the snare drums".
(Transmarine slaps his forhead)
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN
Ouch!
I hear what you're saying. Why "manufacture" mistakes and studio noise? But is it possible that they just kept some of the temp track stuff in there? That could explain the hiss - he was doing a guide vocal with a live performance or something, and they decided to keep some of it in.
They did the same thing on Surfer Rosa. You can hear the temp vocal bleed through in the background sometimes. Maybe they were trying to go for that sort of feel?
Just playing devil's advocate here.
That stuff doesn't usually bother me, but I could see how it could. Like "hey we're making a studio album with lots of multitracking, but see how loose and playful we are?" It obvious with all the overdubs that there are not all playing at the same time in a room together, so why make it seems so? If the illusion works, then it creates atmosphere, but if it doesn't, then it sounds fake and could be distracting.
== jeffamerica == |
| TRANSMARINE |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 13:16:38
quote:
Originally posted by Grotesque
quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
Since the lyrics in BLUEFINGER's case are not "live to two-track" (I hate to even use that phrase, because it's only causing confusion), any extraneous voices and weird things are concsiously and purposely PUT there.
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN
Why do you think we dont understand what you mean? The contradiction you see between multitracking and accidents is just not obvious for everybody. You can do multitracking with the same raw spirit as a live to 2 tracks. I see (or hear) Bluefinger just that way. The rythms are obviously very live, with speed changes (very welcomed in the "jazzy" parts), shouts, noises and everything. Just the oposite of the orange albums and its rythm tracks created by a computer.
Frank Black must be a very unpicky listener. He certainly care about the feelings and few about "the sound of the snare drums".
(Transmarine slaps his forhead)
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
| Jefrey |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 13:05:59
quote:
Originally posted by Jason
quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
it's the obvious hiss of the layering (like a bad 4-track recorder) that is bugging me. Does no one else hear it?
Well, again, you're listening to a leaked pre-release copy. Whatever quibbles you have with this early version may not apply to the authorized, official, released, mastered Bluefinger.
See my post in the spoiler thread - it's pretty obvious to me that the release version of TA has been remixed and remastered, so it's quite possible that these little things will be cleaned up in the final version.
== jeffamerica == |
| Grotesque |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 12:11:08
quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
Since the lyrics in BLUEFINGER's case are not "live to two-track" (I hate to even use that phrase, because it's only causing confusion), any extraneous voices and weird things are concsiously and purposely PUT there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN
Why do you think we dont understand what you mean? The contradiction you see between multitracking and accidents is just not obvious for everybody. You can do multitracking with the same raw spirit as a live to 2 tracks. I see (or hear) Bluefinger just that way. The rythms are obviously very live, with speed changes (very welcomed in the "jazzy" parts), shouts, noises and everything. Just the oposite of the orange albums and its rythm tracks created by a computer.
Frank Black must be a very unpicky listener. He certainly care about the feelings and few about "the sound of the snare drums". |
| Jason |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 11:54:34
quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
it's the obvious hiss of the layering (like a bad 4-track recorder) that is bugging me. Does no one else hear it?
Well, again, you're listening to a leaked pre-release copy. Whatever quibbles you have with this early version may not apply to the authorized, official, released, mastered Bluefinger. |
| PixieSteve |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 11:31:40
quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
I love it too...just not when technical sloppiness overshadows the result.
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN
wow, talk about making a big deal out of very little!
"I'm an editor of a major publication" - coastline |
| kfs |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 09:55:02
Yes, Transmarine, I actually noticed that the other day in TPB (before you started this thread).
I know exactly what you mean. I just figured it might not be that way in the final copy.
______________________
I've seen blue you've never seen |
| TRANSMARINE |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 09:31:38
quote:
Originally posted by Grotesque
I see what you mean, Transmarine, but when you refer to live-to-2-tracks records, I remind you they're full of accidents and errors (sometimes very enjoyable).... It's so good to have a "perfect" pop song sometimes.
I am very aware and totally understand the two-track thing...has nothing to do with the live accidents and errors...sigh. Maybe I am not being clear. Since the lyrics in BLUEFINGER's case are not "live to two-track" (I hate to even use that phrase, because it's only causing confusion), any extraneous voices and weird things are concsiously and purposely PUT there, often by way of a track flown in later...it's the obvious hiss of the layering (like a bad 4-track recorder) that is bugging me. Does no one else hear it?
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
| Grotesque |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 09:02:10
I see what you mean, Transmarine, but when you refer to live-to-2-tracks records, I remind you they're full of accidents and errors (sometimes very enjoyable). Personaly, and that has nothing to do with how much I like FB's records, I consider that everything he did without Gil Norton or Eric Drew Feldman has a touch of "amateur" work. That touch was very calculated with Albini (he thought it would be cool), very accidental with Tiven (because it was done so fast), but I feel it. Without an absolute pop-perfectionist like Feldman or Norton, you will allways have littles bits of this and that in the sound. I think FB like them, but I wish (pray?) that he will work with Feldman again. It's so good to have a "perfect" pop song sometimes.
By the way, this should be in the general discussion area, or at least in the Bluefinger thread.
I now the rating is higher here but there is no "new" stuff in this thread. |
| TRANSMARINE |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 08:07:03
I love it too...just not when technical sloppiness overshadows the result.
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
| Sam |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 04:18:27
Love when Frank multi tracks |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 02:03:24
I like me some hiss, actually.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| DruggedBunny |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 16:02:15
The 'aaaaaaaahhhh-ha-haa' bit rules.
|
| bumblebeeboy2 |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 15:28:42
In that case I've not really noticed it.
http://www.myspace.com/monkeyhelperband http://www.myspace.com/imnimrodsson |
| TRANSMARINE |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 14:09:43
No...what I'm talking about is not stuff like the talking bits or background voices...I'm talking about vocal track hissing as it's layered over instrument tracks.
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
| Czar |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 14:02:02
No, no, I was just goofing around. |
| bumblebeeboy2 |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 13:59:02
Hey I like those bits! On quite a few of the Catholics albums there would be strange noises, yelps and stuff in the background, either from a Catholic or Frank turning away from the mic and doing something. He's always done it as far as I can tell, and does them more when playing live, I like that!
http://www.myspace.com/monkeyhelperband http://www.myspace.com/imnimrodsson |
| Czar |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 13:48:02
Anybody who bought the "official" TA release AND got it from the ether first can confirm if there's any difference in the mastering? |
| Jason |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 13:27:59
Before making any sonic judgements, one might consider that the leaked copy might not have been properly mastered yet. |
| Mac E. Doobage |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 12:55:27
Eeeeeewp.
quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
Maybe only because it's the only thing I've been listening to for the past 6 weeks, but does anyone else notice the hissing of the obvious vocal track? Especially in the intro of TPB (when Frank mumbles "stations of the cross" and then his humming just prior to "breathing mask...") and the "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" at the start of CAPTAIN PASTY? It's beginning to annoy me. Hope this hasn't been covered already. And if it has, well, whatever happened with this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN
|
| TRANSMARINE |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 11:46:52
I did indeed mean multitracking...but do you hear what I'm talking about? The humming in particular at the start of TPB is flown in and clearly not from the same take as the intro lyrics...there is a definate and noticible splice. It doesn't make me dislike it or anything, it's just a rarity when it comes to Frank (as we have had nothing for 10 years but mostly live to two-track) to hear such sonic puppetmastery. The "aaahhhhhhhhh" from the start of CP also suffers from high-pitch hissing...much different than the vocals which start a few seconds later. Just an observation.
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
