| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jontiven |
Posted - 05/18/2006 : 09:39:37
OK, equal time for positivity.
Feel free to weigh in, even if you disagree.
bye,
JT |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| speedy_m |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 09:56:10
Well, it has taken many, many spins, but god damn I love this record. There are still a few tracks that don't quite make it for me, but in general I think it's brilliant. Some of these song belong in the great Charles Thompson pantheon along side anything from the Pixies catalogue. I'm just blown by how much I enjoy it, especially compared to how cool I was to it to begin with (even though this happens with every FB release). I was a little cool on Honeycomb, but I warmed to it and enjoyed it, but it doesn't really move me. This record, however, has gone from "all the songs sound the same" to "all the songs sound the same - they're all BRILLIANT".
he's back jack smoking crack find him if you want to get found
|
| edbanky |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 13:58:08
I wanted to quote Frankie from a recent interview in which he gives possible hints about what he personally thinks of his work:
Speaking of the big name type guys who played on FM/RM and their prowess:
"[T]hey all can play the shit out of anything (laughs). But that can go both ways, it can be a really beautiful, wonderful thing; but everyone knows it can also be a stale, soulless thing. It all depends on what you do with it."
He's obviously not going to add "and their work on my album was really stale" or anything.
I love this next one, discussing the inclusion of some "leftovers" from Honeycomb:
"They fit onto this record because there's plenty of room for everybody on this one (laughs). We're letting everybody in, you know what I mean? So, if you've got some problem tracks left over from your previous record - you didn't love 'em enough or they didn't shine strongly enough to make it on there - you still have a soft spot for them. There's still something about those tracks that you like."
I totally see that on this new album. A lot of quality, and a lot of "problem tracks".
Continuing:
"There's a few songs like that, I had a soft spot for them. So hey, double CD - there's plenty of room for everybody. C'mon!"
This one is a little more abstract; he's comparing himself to a "court composer/musician" type, where the fans are "the King" for whom he is composing.
"I write the music and the King says `oh, that thing you wrote for my birthday, I can't believe it, it brought me to tears. You're such a genius. I'm going to give you even more money and put you in better clothes. You're wonderful'.
So then you come along and go `so Frank, tell me about that thing you wrote for his birthday' and I'm like `I don't know, it's just some old shit I threw together, but he loves it'. It's not that my music isn't beautiful, the King says it is."
I like it.
"They, on average, die the same age."
ModulousMember / Posts: 1541 /From: Manchester, UK / Registered: 05-01-2005 |
| pixie punk |
Posted - 06/23/2006 : 11:24:07
I just want to thank Charles,Jon Tiven and all the other players on FMRM.Yesterday during my first listen I was transported to the magic feelings that I believe happened in the studio.I just closed my eyes and found the sweet spot between the two speakers and ended with a great smile after disc two was over.I'm a Frankaholic,his voice alone is one of the reasons I happily go to the record store to buy his records,the wonderful rhymes are always there.Great playing and arrangements flow naturally in this new creation from The Man in Black! There are some amazing jams on both discs and I could feel the energy of it thru the speakers.Beautiful and reflective stuff,Gracias Charles!!! Mr.Tiven and the rest of the recording crew did a hell of a job putting together this magnificent work of musical art.GRACIAS!!!
PUERTO RICO PIXIE |
| Jason |
Posted - 06/22/2006 : 17:25:55
While I have reservations about HONEYCOMB and sympathized with some of the criticisms here of it, I am 100% behind FM RM as a great, great record.
I THOUGHT the last few Catholics records were pretty much perfect when it came to being both loose and elegant, and expressive of such a smart and tasteful ear for classic, timeless sounds. But this new record manages to be even better.
The songwriting, Tiven's production, the arrangements, the sense of diversity created by the mix of various recording sessions (can't you TELL that those Oct. 2004 tracks -- the ones for which Lyle Workman has an arranging credit, I assume -- were done in one 24 hour period? Can't you HEAR it?)... it's all so dang smart.
If it's not doing anything for you now and you ARE a fan of the past 8 or so years of Frank's new musical output, I say give it some more time. There's a lot of music here. I'm already loving this record and I don't think I've properly absorbed even half of it, yet. |
| danjersey |
Posted - 06/21/2006 : 19:42:38
nice job jon tiven. there are many layers on these discs and they all sound like you're in the next room. |
| chief |
Posted - 06/21/2006 : 17:08:57
[quote][i]
Still, I can also reflect, from my own experience, on the idea of birthing a song, being happy with it, and becoming so familiar with it that you take it for granted. So a guy like Tiven takes the basic song in the studio, hands-on, and Frank gives him a lot of slack (I believe). The finished product is played back for Frank, who hears "his baby" in the mix, and thinks of it less in terms of production, than in terms of his song being the subject. Yeah, it's highly speculative. But take "Raider Man" for example; I look at that as closer to what Frank wrote and would present in a solo setting--and it's probably the best track on disc one (in my opinion, duh).[quote]
i really like the sound of fm/rm. maybe i'm in the minority.
as a musician/songwriter who records songs, i can tell you that i obsess over every intricacy of the SOUND every time i play back something i've put down. i can't help it. you don't just hear "your baby", you hear everything that is wrong with that fucking baby. of course, i play all the instruments. i suppose that's different in a way.
that's just me though. |
| danjersey |
Posted - 06/15/2006 : 20:21:02
man sometimes we suck the shit out of this site.
it's a record.
can't wait to play it. |
| floop |
Posted - 06/15/2006 : 20:07:25
quote:
Originally posted by edbanky
Hey wait, there's a show available in which he plays even NEWER stuff?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Clinton is a shithead."
- Ray Bradbury
eduardo, i suggest you seek out the Cafe Du Nord solo show. some material from what will be the post-FMRM release, which he's been working on with EDF.
i can't wait till next year
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur |
| edbanky |
Posted - 06/15/2006 : 18:36:37
quote:
Originally posted by blank
This album seems like it was phoned in by frank durring the busiest 2 years of his carreer. Pixies tours/marrige/fatherhood prep were his dominanting concerns over a period when most recording artists dedicate their all to the matter at hand. Tiven played a huge role in the outcome of this album. I think frank just wants to more past this debacle.
At the Cafe Du Nord show he's playing stuff we won't see till late 2007 with a new album 3 monts away. The 2007 stuff was frank. FSRM tiven. Furthermore, what the fuck do I know?
In my fantasies, BLANK is (another of) FB's secret identity(s), created entirely for the purpose of providing this insight. Obviously, he could never say this publicly.
Hey wait, there's a show available in which he plays even NEWER stuff?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Clinton is a shithead."
- Ray Bradbury |
| blank |
Posted - 06/15/2006 : 12:33:06
This album seems like it was phoned in by frank durring the busiest 2 years of his carreer. Pixies tours/marrige/fatherhood prep were his dominanting concerns over a period when most recording artists dedicate their all to the matter at hand. Tiven played a huge role in the outcome of this album. I think frank just wants to more past this debacle.
At the Cafe Du Nord show he's playing stuff we won't see till late 2007 with a new album 3 monts away. The 2007 stuff was frank. FSRM tiven. Furthermore, what the fuck do I know? |
| edbanky |
Posted - 06/15/2006 : 10:02:36
I need to restate and possibly backstep somewhat.
I think we've got a pair of distinct phenomena being discussed: 1) The psychological phenomenon of becoming accustomed to something due to repeated exposure (maybe I wrongly invoked this) AND 2) the notion that good art often requires prolonged exposure to be fully appreciated.
Maybe we all agree with this distinction.
The other thing I want to say, looking at my post, is that it's pretty arrogant to say something like "Frank Black has lost his way" or something, because I don't happen to like it. I mean, who am I to discount the possibility that I am simply unable to appreciate the majesty of his newer work? Maybe I have finally lost pace along his artistic path, and his work transcends my appreciation. At the same time, my observations are all I have; since I obviously can't distinguish whether he's gotten worse or my ability to recognize the quality has faltered, I am left with just what I CAN observe.
Anyway, I see both sides to Teafer's comment about Tiven being Frank's choice, and reflecting Frank's desired direction. The fact that Frank continued working with Tiven after Honeycomb was released illustrates Frank's satisfaction with the production.
Still, I can also reflect, from my own experience, on the idea of birthing a song, being happy with it, and becoming so familiar with it that you take it for granted. So a guy like Tiven takes the basic song in the studio, hands-on, and Frank gives him a lot of slack (I believe). The finished product is played back for Frank, who hears "his baby" in the mix, and thinks of it less in terms of production, than in terms of his song being the subject. Yeah, it's highly speculative. But take "Raider Man" for example; I look at that as closer to what Frank wrote and would present in a solo setting--and it's probably the best track on disc one (in my opinion, duh).
You're right that it's ultimately Frank's job to iterate his art how he thinks best. Songs on the record are often dull, melodically. Lyrics are more run-of-the-mill on this record. Tiven didn't do that. Maybe I should call them co-conspirators instead.
And for the record (as of now), I think there's a good album's worth of good songs among the 27 tracks. Maybe a 10 to 12 song album would have worked better for me.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Clinton is a shithead."
- Ray Bradbury |
| Teafer |
Posted - 06/15/2006 : 09:09:02
quote:
Originally posted by s_wrenn
I just bought the album today and i'm loving it. I love his version of Dirty Old Town.
http://myspace.com/seanwrenn 
you're in for a nice roller coaster ride. welcome home.
"i'm not impressed. you wanna impress me? take the wheel, motherfucker." |
| s_wrenn |
Posted - 06/15/2006 : 09:01:58
I just bought the album today and i'm loving it. I love his version of Dirty Old Town.
http://myspace.com/seanwrenn |
| langdonboom |
Posted - 06/15/2006 : 08:27:44
quote:
the "good art improves with time" idea
This isn't exactly my idea -- not just that "good art" improves with time, but it "improves" ie, your appreciation can grow for it, once you let IT change YOU - that is, once you've gotten your head around its structures, meanings, sounds ideas, etc, - the same things that seemed chaotic or weak reveal themselves -- again, this is a highly subjective experience but one I think has repeated itself with me on almost every Frank album since the first! So I keep my faith in the man past a few first listens. But not everyone is going to like everything FB does, of course, and so what? I just advocate giving it more than a few listens before deciding its not worth any more. |
| Teafer |
Posted - 06/15/2006 : 02:05:08
ed,
thanks for that post, triggered a few thoughts :
quote:
Honestly, I am happy to realize that a big part of my displeasure is with the presentation. So far, Tiven seems like the worst thing to happen to Frank since he left Puerto Rico.
strange criticism : didn't Frank want this "presentation" by specifically asking tiven the kind of players he wanted? so i can't think that tiven has forced frank into this sound. the man is past 40, he knows where he wanna go.(and i'm not going to indulge into aesthethic discussion but to separate "presentation" and let's say "the heart/the spirit of the songs" is,i'm telling you that and i'm an hegelian my friend, not going to work)
quote:
Still, it's amazing that Frank can sport flashes of genius in even this darkest hour.
You are only assuming that it's his darkest hour. i'm on the other side of street. hence i do not hear flashed of genius, but steady flow of amazing ideas pretty much at the same level as TOTY.
quote:
As far as the "good art improves with time" idea, I mostly disagree. Some good art requires more than a cursory glance, but I think crappy art gains more from repeated exposure than good art. I perceive that people can end up appreciating and respecting just about anything upon repeated and/or intense exposure. It's like there's this cognative dissonance we have to overcome, and once we do, we're happy and calm.
Strongly disagree but this is not the place for that (superinteresting) discussion. I'm ready to discuss that by mail. be my guest.
and i dig your signature.
"i'm not impressed. you wanna impress me? take the wheel, motherfucker." |
| edbanky |
Posted - 06/14/2006 : 10:05:28
Unhappy with FM/RM on so many levels. Honestly, I am happy to realize that a big part of my displeasure is with the presentation. So far, Tiven seems like the worst thing to happen to Frank since he left Puerto Rico.
Still, it's amazing that Frank can sport flashes of genius in even this darkest hour.
As far as the "good art improves with time" idea, I mostly disagree. Some good art requires more than a cursory glance, but I think crappy art gains more from repeated exposure than good art. I perceive that people can end up appreciating and respecting just about anything upon repeated and/or intense exposure. It's like there's this cognative dissonance we have to overcome, and once we do, we're happy and calm.
Anyway, I can't give up on Frankie; I will still buy all his stuff--at least for a few more years--cause I am OCD collector guy. But I am also holding out for a return to mastery.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Clinton is a shithead." Ray Bradbury |
| langdonboom |
Posted - 06/14/2006 : 09:00:17
"The Grunge age killed the saxophone, while the recent Indie permits the trumpet, trombone, clarinet, oboe, etc. "
I think you might be overlooking an amazing non-ska band called Rocket from the Crypt, who have made the world safe for punk-rock saxophone from 1992-2005! Anyway, I love the sax ESPECIALLY on Johnny Barleycorn as well as the awesome Manitoba from SMYT! I mean, we're not talking Hewy Lewis and the News or something! Any instrument is fair game in Frank's (and my) world.
And while I agree this album doesn't "ROCK" in the same way (though noboday has pulled "In The Time of My Ruin" for their best-of tracks, and that is hands-down my fave ["some pain is good!"]) it has a different sonic agenda I think -- if John Lennon had only written "Ticket to Ride" or something, and never wrote "Working Class Hero" or "Norwegian Wood" would his genius have seemed so all-encompassing? This is just another Flavor of Frank, don't call it a fall-off, nor a come-back, its just Next Phase. As I've written elsewhere, Frank's genius is subtle, its doesn't grab you by the nuts anymore, it tugs at your heartstrings (in the most non-manipulative way that phrase can suggest), and while it might not be your cup of tea anymore, a more expnasive point of view on the topic is called for I think.
Sure, I can pick out my "least favorite" tracks, but all of them have the man's beauty and soul behind them, something very few recording artists today can claim.
My final point is for Mr. Tiven -- I know its a bummer in this world of critical acclaim and limited shelf/download space that albums must seem like instant smashes coming out of the gate -- this is just harsh commercial reality, but it makes no sense to force Frank's square music into the round hole of mainstream america -- his albums are growers, as is most of the best art of any kind, and while this doesn't bode well for sales and/or commercial success these days (when movies have to gross $50 million dollars their first weekend, books have to be suggested by Oprah to have any chance to sell, etc) it doesn't speak a word about their ultimate artistic and personal value to the people who are connecting to it. So there's two issues -- commercial support, or pure gut-level honest reaction to the new and the unfamiliar. I understand both, and I hope this culture (meaning each of us individually) will give our knee-jerk reactions to EVERYTHING a second glance and say "hey, maybe this deserves another look/listen/read" before deciding, definitely (as I have admittedly done before), "Yes, this time the Man has really fallen off!" |
| 1965 |
Posted - 06/14/2006 : 05:40:57
I was told by 3 different record shops that FMRM will be available in-store Saturday 17th June.
In Brisbane anyway. Assuming other Capital cities would be the same.
(( I'm a Snake... cut in half 'cause I'm not the one you needed. )) |
| TAMAL |
Posted - 06/14/2006 : 04:13:06
so is the 19th of june the australian release aswell? I remember honeycomb took a week or two longer than the rest of the world. aw man... I cannot wait!
my shirt is shitty! |
| Carl |
Posted - 06/09/2006 : 07:26:36
:|
:D
 |
| lonely persuader |
Posted - 06/09/2006 : 04:55:30
toty and dits, hmm.
sounds like totty and ditties (if you know what i mean). |
| Stevio10 |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 19:37:05
atleast (atleast) 5 songs off the double album are as good, if not best, songs ive heard from fb; if your poison gets you, johnny barleycorn, in the time of my ruin, fastman, and fitzgerald are all amazing!! the rest of the album aint bad either but these songs really make me want to cruise for chicks in my automobile! if i had one that is. They remind me of a mix of the best of toty and dits. |
| Hatchetman |
Posted - 06/08/2006 : 01:46:46
At the moment I can’t stop playing 'In the Time of My Ruin'. The double tracked vocals are perfect, as is the simple guitar riff. Nice ‘poppy’ bass line and the drums are excellent too, especially on the second verse. This song is very emotive and the first time I heard it I was holding back tears. Franks voice…well what can I say? It’s Frank’s voice. The line ‘I did not know you would be created’ is wonderful, I’m assuming that he is referring to his son Jack or daughter Lucy (or both). A fantastic song!
All I can say is thanks Frank!
Ade
As the air conditioner hummed.... |
| crippe |
Posted - 06/06/2006 : 14:52:19
I think Holland Town is one of his greatest songs, that calypso feel makes me happy. |
| two reelers |
Posted - 06/06/2006 : 04:55:47
after a few listens, i like it a lot. much more than honeycomb. but is it just me, or does somebody else feel that it would not only be excellent, but simply the BEST ALBUM OF THE WORLD AND ALL TIMES, if it was recorded with the catholics, and also in catholics style ? (and if the horns would be removed). no offense, mr. tiven, but i like frank songs much mor being "unproduced".
i think this is also the reason why surfer rosa is so much appreciated, despite that some of the songs are not that fantatstic, imho. it is just pure frank (pixies, resp.), well recorded. no production or tuning necessary. the same for all fb-albums, which were "produced" just by him or the musicians he was with. i think the "on the road" feeling i like so much about the catholics is due to this style - just go ut and record the music, don't think about a production.
but as i said, this is just me.
I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band |
| The Holiday Son |
Posted - 06/03/2006 : 19:08:59
quote:
Originally posted by Don Eduardo
Fitzgerald - fantastic lyrics, got one of Frank's mad rhyming patterns in it, i think its AABABBA for each verse.
Nice, I didn't notice it.
It’s sad to see your art hanging on the wall
So many pictures there, yours the best of all
I like the Indian, the one in ballpoint ink
In ancient Massachusettes long before you called
You traded him and many others for a drink
You fingers thick from hammers, well it really makes you think
And then my father would fill your glass so tall
When I was a kid I gophered in your crew
Always a kind word, and you showed me what to do
And living hammered, well its always hit or miss
But through your cigarette-stained beard, your love rang true
And though you are so loved it had to come to this
You got shut off because you always stink of piss
And now you drink someplace where no one bothers you
Oh, Fitzy |
| Don Eduardo |
Posted - 06/03/2006 : 19:02:17
Cant stop listening to this album. I think my favourite song has to be Fitzgerald - fantastic lyrics, got one of Frank's mad rhyming patterns in it, i think its AABABBA for each verse. |
| toeknee |
Posted - 06/03/2006 : 16:27:57
Today I was scared that i was getting bored of the album already, but then I reminded myself that I had played End Of The Summer 47 times. |
| ObfuscateByWill |
Posted - 06/03/2006 : 03:19:31
Fantastic album.
Time to update my personal "Best Of" mix. Hard choices ahead.
 *Release the bats! |
| remig |
Posted - 06/03/2006 : 01:32:05
I love this album so much |
| jimmy |
Posted - 06/02/2006 : 23:39:53
I downloaded about half the songs this week and I just burned a 3"CD to mail to my friend who also likes FB, it's kind of a promo EP with the four songs I like the best.
1. If Your Poison Gets You
2. Wanderlust
3. Seven Days
4. Highway to Lowdown
I think that makes a good introduction to the album.
"Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you." JOHN 15:14 |
| prozacrat |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 23:34:48
quote:
Originally posted by dr.Evil
quote:
Originally posted by Kirk
Again, I really like FMRM and have been listening to it nonstop ever since receiving the promo...
but there are 2 huge problems (IMHO) Frank has been including in his music lately:
1) Please, no more saxophone. I'm sure the saxophonist is a great guy and really talented, but this instruments does not make sense to fans since the Pixies. We're too young. It simply reminds us of that weird/annoying guy from the Saturday Night Live band or any other romantic comedy from the 1980s (Police Academy, Better Off Dead, etc). The Grunge age killed the saxophone, while the recent Indie permits the trumpet, trombone, clarinet, oboe, etc.
2) Singing out of tune destroys the songs. This reveals little effort on the singer’s part. It’s understood that singing sharp or flat can be done to emphasize a point (or melodic texture) and a sour note here and there makes a song seem even more human, but there are some really off notes, turning a potential beauty to an ‘acceptable.’
That’s all. I mean, Frank has done wonders with the Honeycomb/FMRM era and I wish there was book that would somehow tie this whole phase together: story after story, making sense of this all. I don’t think there should be that much ‘mystery’ about what was running through his head. A lot of question and fan uncertainties would be resolved. Anyway…
The grunge age was a bad age, better of dead was a good movie and there are (sampled?) horns on FB selftitled, right?
The horns on FB's selftitled album were provided by Kurt Hoffman (I believe), and John Linnell, who, of course, played saxaphone on the Dr. Evil theme song, which you seem to be somewhat familiar with.
http://www.prozacrat.com |
| marcus4realius |
Posted - 05/31/2006 : 08:07:35
I'm sorry, but since Frank and The Catholics split up, I haven't been this disinterested and frankly, embarrassed by Frank's output since Cult of Ray.
FB&TCs had balls. This music has a scar where the balls once were.
Yes, I know the pedigree and history and greatness of ALL the players on the album including Frank and Jon Tiven himself, but this is weak. Frank's voice is not good on this material. The playing could have been ANYONE...none of this sounds inspired to me at all.
Chalk it up to the fact that I haven't hit that "Middle Age - fuck you all - I like whatever I like no matter what you think of it - look how ironic I am that I use to push the envelope, now I just sit fatly in the envelope - Selfish Music" phase of my life. I'm not going to blow smoke up the ass of the producer just because he posts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It suprises me that Jon Tiven would post at all. I think it's very lame to pander to the fans and try and "sell" it to the fans. You can post and comment and answer questions and STILL REMAIN SEPERATE from your work on this album, but he hasn't.
I'm going to like Frank Black till I die. I will be proud of MOST of his output. Some things won't register the same way with me as they do with others, that's life, but since we're all sharing our opinions...this is mine. |
| danjersey |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 21:40:03
june 19th right? that when this records out right? downloads are great when rare but this is a dbl cd with artwork and shit.
i'll wait my turn. |
| Grotesque |
Posted - 05/30/2006 : 11:15:32
Yes.. My terrible ways is one of my favourites. Perfect melody unpredictable untill you learn it note by note.
That's why the first listen is not significative.
The song I don't really get is El real el Rey. Strange, really. Do the words have ANY meaning at all?
When I get to that song, I am a bit lost. Like if Frank was playing it as a somnambulist. |
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