| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| picpic |
Posted - 12/08/2017 : 01:43:03
So, let's compile the current rumors
- According to some interviews (often Paz), a new album is in the works
- Someone on this forum supposedly heard that the Rockfield studios in england have been booked in early 2018
- Charles said to some journalist last year that he'd like his next record to be produced by both Dalgery and Norton
As for the songs, nothing new on the BMI catalog, but there's still many unreleased "new" songs in the list. We already know some of them as official/unofficial demos/raw versions or short live snippets (Super Lecker), but not all of them.
ALICE PRIN 14843364
BANKS OF THE DRAIN 14843409
LAND OF GREEN 14843908
LAST NIGHT THE WOLVES CAME OUT 14843911
O LITTLE CLOUD 14844131
PICKEREL PICKER 14844189
RATS ALIVE 14844230
TRANQUILIZE ME 14844508
DOWN IN TOULON 20616476
I LIKE TO DRIVE 20616992
SUPER LECKER 20617959
AMERICAN RHYME 22096890
BOGMAN 22096929
SCREW PINE 22097414
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| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bedbug |
Posted - 08/07/2019 : 03:16:52
quote:
Originally posted by picpic
Wake me up when the podcast is online.
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"Service Unavailable"
Wake up |
| natenate101 |
Posted - 08/06/2019 : 14:13:16
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I have a feeling this record is going to be very moody and dark
Love that there a lot of noises burried in the mix
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I agree about the noises in the mix. Seems like this will be a bit more dynamic production wise.
Can we move new album talk here?
http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32236
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| billgoodman |
Posted - 08/06/2019 : 11:41:08
I have a feeling this record is going to be very moody and dark
Love that there a lot of noises burried in the mix
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| The Maharal |
Posted - 08/06/2019 : 07:56:57
Catfish Kate video is up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzMff4KMf88 |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 07/19/2019 : 07:03:23
I tried to get a better shipping rate:
The postage costs would depend on various factors, including the size and weight of the parcel, the destination country, and the service being selected on checkout. These prices are fixed so we are unable to amend these. Please accept my sincerest apologies for any inconvenience caused.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| picpic |
Posted - 06/11/2019 : 09:39:14
Wake me up when the podcast is online.
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| Bedbug |
Posted - 06/11/2019 : 05:50:07
LD to the rescue |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 06/08/2019 : 09:55:55
quote:
Originally posted by picpic
I'm not angry. I just don't like her vocals. Big whoop dee doo.
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I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
| picpic |
Posted - 06/08/2019 : 09:28:22
I'm not angry. I just don't like her vocals. Big whoop dee doo.
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| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 06/08/2019 : 06:21:02
quote:
Originally posted by stuczuba
https://youtu.be/O93EzFNKD5I
This is my fav clip of Paz doing her thing.
Nearly everything in 2.0 is different to 1
0 - Dave's completely changed his drumming technique, Charles sings in a completely different register (and is writing songs/melodies to suit his current voice) and Joey is playing much straighter, cleaner way. Think I've seen them with Paz 4 times, her tone is very different to Kim's - never seen her miss a note or a cue though.
Yes, I've seen that one. She's definitely a professional musician every bit the caliber of the rest of the gang. Full disclosure here - I'm a fan. We actually named one of our daughters Paz. Not necessarily after the Pixies Paz, but that was certainly the first time I knew that was a name. Quasi named-after I guess. Or 'inspired by.' Ah hell, probably 'named after' if we get down to brass tacks.
Paz means "Peace" by the way...
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
| Bedbug |
Posted - 06/08/2019 : 06:13:16
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
By the way, if you watch the concert video, lots of examples from Paz, but just check her out on Debaser (around 45 minutes in). She kills it.
Agreed - watched it this morning with coffee. Although the version I found features either the cameraman or one of his buds on backing vocals. Do you have a link to a version that isn’t enhanced with deep audience participation?
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
I do not. I had to tune them out. Don't listen to Gigantic from that video. It's all the cameraman. |
| stuczuba |
Posted - 06/08/2019 : 06:04:07
https://youtu.be/O93EzFNKD5I
This is my fav clip of Paz doing her thing.
Nearly everything in 2.0 is different to 1
0 - Dave's completely changed his drumming technique, Charles sings in a completely different register (and is writing songs/melodies to suit his current voice) and Joey is playing much straighter, cleaner way. Think I've seen them with Paz 4 times, her tone is very different to Kim's - never seen her miss a note or a cue though.
|
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 06/08/2019 : 05:56:20
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
By the way, if you watch the concert video, lots of examples from Paz, but just check her out on Debaser (around 45 minutes in). She kills it.
Agreed - watched it this morning with coffee. Although the version I found features either the cameraman or one of his buds on backing vocals. Do you have a link to a version that isn’t enhanced with deep audience participation?
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
| Bedbug |
Posted - 06/08/2019 : 04:49:39
By the way, if you watch the concert video, lots of examples from Paz, but just check her out on Debaser (around 45 minutes in). She kills it. |
| Bedbug |
Posted - 06/08/2019 : 04:30:42
Thanks Johnny Ribcage and everyone for your answers and insights.
I'm about half way through Pixies Live at the Oracle 4/10/19 on the home theatre.
I gotta say, I think they sound perfect, and I think Paz sounds perfect too. In trying to listen to her specifically and see if she is off / out of key I don't detect it. Maybe it's because I have zero professional musical experience. I strum open chords on an acoustic guitar. The closest I've come to practicing is in prep for an open mic nite in front of 20 people max. So I totally respect those with more knowledge and experience who can detect things I cannot. For all I know I don't even know what key is and I've never been in key myself.
Remember that striped dress on the internet a while ago that some people saw as blue and some people saw as gold? Could there be a similar thing with notes? Because there are only so many colors right? And there are only so many notes right? So maybe your eyes and your ears receive stimulation differently? I have no idea.
I do find it interesting that in something as supposedly radical as rock music used to be considered, there are still rules to work within. Same with art I am told. Seems that the persons that put us on this earth have given us a specifically designed framework we must operate within, else we could just invent new colors and new notes.
Remember that scene where Nigel is banging loudly on his electric guitar using a violin instead of a guitar pic, and then he stops to tune the violin ever so slightly? |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 17:08:13
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Was key invented then?
Is this a joke?
- Brian
That just reminded me of Nigel Tufnel, the way he says that to the rest of the band, "is this a joke?"
No, it's not a joke, it's a round about plea for someone to answer the first part of my question.
(Thank you Broken Face for answering the second part).
All this key talk centers around Paz. Was there / is there any key talk in regards to Mrs. Murphy?
This is an amusing conversation, and I don't mean that in a condescending way. Seems like it's getting a little heated around here, and I'm not sure why. (Clarification Edit: heated in general, not just about this topic - we have some other convo threads threatening to jump the shark as well). It's boiling down to a weird hybrid of a musical theory discussion + taste + perception. Which is all good - it's what these kind of forums are great for. Where else can you have this kind of discussion with people across the globe at any hour of the day?
Anyway, I'll try to answer your question at face value. The concept of being 'on key' is just (in my mind) a euphemism for following standard music theory in the context of a piece and it's genre/style. Music theory is on one hand a set-in-stone mathematical concept and at the same time a man-made thing that can dictate, but also simply describe. Further - it's pointless in different applications. Try to apply western theory to eastern music. It doesn't work. Not that the Pixies are all that complex. Try to line up Pixies, Beatles, and say early 2000s King Crimson improv - it won't, can't happen. Everyone is doing their own thing to bend or obliterate the rules.
I know that sounds pedantic, but I'm not sure how else to say it. Plus I'm probably just a pedantic dude. Call a spade a spade. That said, the concept breaks down when the rules are being broken on purpose, and it also breaks down when the line is blurred by trying to align objectively off-key live performances and objectively on-key live and studio performances.
To answer your question from my own silo'd perspective - yeah, it's always been a thing - the concept of musical theory, for which "key" is just a descriptor. I never remember any big "key" discussions before. Not in regard to Kim Deal or the Pixies at large. Was Kim singing out of key sometimes, either live, in the studio, or on stage, purposefully or otherwise? You betcha. No doubt. I didn't bring it up though. It's been growing on this site but I haven't seen it anywhere else.
Why are we having this conversation now? Well, for one, Paz is definitely sticking to a script here, or at least a character description (Pixies Bassist), and she's on the record about trying to understand and learn what it means to be a Pixie and fill those shoes. In other words, she's done her homework. But she's under a microscope. Kim was just Kim. Paz is 'The Replacement,' and is being evaluated as such. Take that how you will (not you Bedbug, or anyone specifically, just whoever).
Further, we are a handful of diehard forum members on a forgotten corner of the internet's solo artist site for an artist who hasn't been a solo artist for what, like 10 years now. Hell it's so dusty it doesn't even work for long stretches of time (service unavailable). I come here specifically for these kind of chats with like-minded individuals. Or at least folks that are willing to shoot this kind of weird shit for pages on end. Where else are you going to go balls deep on a discussion like this? Certainly not facebook. Sure as shit not with an Applebee's bartender. Maybe a spouse if you are looking for a way out.
The concept of music, performance, art... it's not a zero sum game. At the end of the day it's a zen proposition for me.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
| Broken Face |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 15:07:28
I wasn't talking about anyone in particular, honestly. I was simply saying what I've seen lots of people say, both here and otherwise.
Makes me want to go back in the hole I crawled out of.
- Brian |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 09:57:13
Getting a little warm in here... someone open a window!
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
| picpic |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 09:35:17
quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
But I suspect that people want to dislike Paz for a bunch of weird reasons,
Nope.
quote:
and therefore are trying to pin her as something she's not. She's probably the best pure musician that's ever been in the band.
No one here has criticized her musical skills.
quote:
Not my favorite or the most creative or whatever, but in terms of just a solid musician, Paz is probably tops.
She's a solid musician. Matter of fact.
quote:
I'll say this: I've seen Paz with Pixies at least thrice, and I never noticed anything too amiss, vocally.
Good for you.
Kim and BF vocals harmonies were very good
Shattuck and BF vocal harmonies were very good
Violet and BF vocal harmonies were very (very !) good
Paz and BF vocal harmonies are not working for me.
Sorry.
And Paz is a very good musician.
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| Broken Face |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 09:19:40
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
As a non-musician, it seems to me that the key issue would be something that could be empirically demonstrated to be so, not a matter of a opinion. It's not like: "I like Kim better than Paz" or "I don't like Paz." It's "fact: Paz is not in key when she sings on track a, track b, track c, etc."
I can't really tell one way or the other, cuz, like I said, it's not really my jam. But it seems you're saying there's an agenda, but I don't think that those who are bringing up the out of key Paz topic would say they have an agenda.
There's no electronic meter that can prove this one way or the other?
I'm sure there are plenty of examples of Paz singing a note off-key. That's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to people harping on it, especially on the new single, especially after JohnnyRibCage illustrated that it isn't the case and that what they are hearing is intentional.
Like I said, most artists go flat or miss a note every now and then playing live. Even the all-time greats do this. But everyone talking about how persistent it is are, I think, making a bigger case than it actually is.
And, the truth of the matter is that, when you're in the venue seeing a band live, it is FAR harder to notice a bum harmony line than it is when you're sitting at home, watching it on YouTube or listening to a bootleg. I would rather the band do an amazing job for the people in the venue, leaving them satisfied, than what a bootleg shows. If Paz is able to put on a better show with a few bum notes, I'd greatly prefer that to a sterile live environment with perfect notes.
Live isn't the studio. The studio is the time (arguably) to tinker and perfect. Live should be about the vibe in the room. I think Pixies have a hard time sometimes not coming off as stiff and unmoved during live shows as it is; I wouldn't want to cut them off at the knees by making it even more of a perfunctory performance.
- Brian |
| Bedbug |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 09:14:28
As a non-musician, it seems to me that the key issue would be something that could be empirically demonstrated to be so, not a matter of a opinion. It's not like: "I like Kim better than Paz" or "I don't like Paz." It's "fact: Paz is not in key when she sings on track a, track b, track c, etc."
I can't really tell one way or the other, cuz, like I said, it's not really my jam. But it seems you're saying there's an agenda, but I don't think that those who are bringing up the out of key Paz topic would say they have an agenda.
There's no electronic meter that can prove this one way or the other? |
| Broken Face |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 08:38:06
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Was key invented then?
Is this a joke?
- Brian
That just reminded me of Nigel Tufnel, the way he says that to the rest of the band, "is this a joke?"
No, it's not a joke, it's a round about plea for someone to answer the first part of my question.
(Thank you Broken Face for answering the second part).
All this key talk centers around Paz. Was there / is there any key talk in regards to Mrs. Murphy?
People sing off key live all the time. That's the shortest, easiest answer. If you listen to almost any band enough live, you'll hear a sour note or two. I don't recall the conversation around Kim being "she sings off-key," if that's what you're asking.
But I suspect that people want to dislike Paz for a bunch of weird reasons, and therefore are trying to pin her as something she's not. She's probably the best pure musician that's ever been in the band. Not my favorite or the most creative or whatever, but in terms of just a solid musician, Paz is probably tops.
I'll say this: I've seen Paz with Pixies at least thrice, and I never noticed anything too amiss, vocally.
- Brian |
| Bedbug |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 08:30:33
quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Was key invented then?
Is this a joke?
- Brian
That just reminded me of Nigel Tufnel, the way he says that to the rest of the band, "is this a joke?"
No, it's not a joke, it's a round about plea for someone to answer the first part of my question.
(Thank you Broken Face for answering the second part).
All this key talk centers around Paz. Was there / is there any key talk in regards to Mrs. Murphy? |
| Broken Face |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 08:26:18
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Was key invented then?
Is this a joke?
- Brian |
| Bedbug |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 08:24:30
Was key invented then? |
| Broken Face |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 08:18:32
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Not to go there but, were key and auto tune any kind of issues during 1.0 era?
That's a good question bed bug.
Auto tune wasn't invented then.
- Brian |
| Bedbug |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 08:17:16
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Not to go there but, were key and auto tune any kind of issues during 1.0 era?
That's a good question bed bug. |
| Broken Face |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 08:09:29
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Then we will have to agree to disagree. Those are not basic pop/folk melodies to me in the slightest.
I know the difference between a chord progression and a melody, man. I've been a musician and songwriter for 20 years. I'm sure lots of people here are too, so I don't mean that in a way that makes me special, I'm just saying I know exactly what I am saying.
I think there is a huge difference between hearing a melody you've head 1000 times before ("put the needle in my arm and I'll be dead and gone..") and hearing a song where you just enjoy it and don't think you've heard the melody 1000 times before ("bloody your hand on a cactus tree, wipe it on your dress and send it to meee"). I have no idea how you see these two as occupying the same melodic space. Where Is My Mind is an original melody, it's not a riff on an old folk song. Neither is Ana, which has an interesting melody completely, I just said it's not "intricate", not uninteresting. Show me your standard blues/folk song with the melody for Ana that's been performed for 80 years.
If all of the original Pixies songs were basic folk melodies, I WOULD HATE THE BAND AND NEVER LISTEN TO THEM. All of those songs are original pop melodies. I have no idea how to make myself any clearer on this point outside of making some sort of dense youtube essay with audio clips.
I'm fine agreeing to disagree. I don't think we're going to convince each other of anything at this point.
- Brian |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 08:00:52
I think I gave my thoughts on that above already, picpic. See my lengthy reply near the top of page 16 that starts with “I feel like I may be deep diving too much...”
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
| picpic |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 07:57:20
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
A little more on what's going on with that 'witching hour' line in particular, from what I can tell. The verse riff is E, G#, C#, G#. The chorus seems to be A, G#, F#, C#m, which is a typically interesting Charles Thompson songwriting choice, rather than hit the E to end it. The root of that last witching hour chord is C# (I know I was saying E, but that's where the predictable landing spot would be). You can hear it quite clearly at about 2:16 when they play that riff without vocals, ending on C#m with a drop tuned guitar and bass filling out the low end. The whole song is probably in Drop D. Or Dropped C#/Dflat probably.
Now if you listen close, and play a just a C# note on your guitar (try an octave up on the G string 6th fret), you'll notice on the offending (I presume) second syllable of hour (wuurrr), Paz is perfectly on the root C# the first 3 times through, and the last time she jumps up to an F to complete a C# major chord, which F is actually the Major 3rd of a C# Major chord (technically E# I think, but same thing). So that's another cool, obviously purposeful choice.
What's it all mean? It means, Paz is singing in key. Why does it sound weird? Hold onto your britches.... it's because Charles is singing out of key. Or another way to look at it is Paz is on key for most then holding a major 3rd against a minor chord. It's an auditory slight of hand. Also one that Charles has employed in the past (think Bullet) Pretty cool. I'm glad I took the time to go figure out what the hell was going on there. Knowledge is power.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
OK. So, why does Paz also sings out of key on many old Pixies songs, too ? Don't tell me this is done on purpose. Shattuck was more in tune.
PS: I'm not "hating" Paz. She's obviously a very good musician. But her out-of-tune vocals are just not working for me.
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| Troubles A Foot |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 07:28:41
Then we will have to agree to disagree. Those are not basic pop/folk melodies to me in the slightest.
I know the difference between a chord progression and a melody, man. I've been a musician and songwriter for 20 years. I'm sure lots of people here are too, so I don't mean that in a way that makes me special, I'm just saying I know exactly what I am saying.
I think there is a huge difference between hearing a melody you've head 1000 times before ("put the needle in my arm and I'll be dead and gone..") and hearing a song where you just enjoy it and don't think you've heard the melody 1000 times before ("bloody your hand on a cactus tree, wipe it on your dress and send it to meee"). I have no idea how you see these two as occupying the same melodic space. Where Is My Mind is an original melody, it's not a riff on an old folk song. Neither is Ana, which has an interesting melody completely, I just said it's not "intricate", not uninteresting. Show me your standard blues/folk song with the melody for Ana that's been performed for 80 years.
If all of the original Pixies songs were basic folk melodies, I WOULD HATE THE BAND AND NEVER LISTEN TO THEM. All of those songs are original pop melodies. I have no idea how to make myself any clearer on this point outside of making some sort of dense youtube essay with audio clips.
|
| Broken Face |
Posted - 06/07/2019 : 02:52:33
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I feel like people aren't 100% understanding what I am saying about the melodies.
I am not saying a song like, let's say...Ana, is "intricate." I have no idea what "intricate" even means in this discussion.
But I am saying a song like Ana doesn't sound like a generic folk melody you have heard in 800 other songs.
I am not saying a melody like Here Comes Your Man, one of the most melodic and accessible songs, is intricate. But I am saying when I hear that song, I don't yawn and go "heard this melody before." When I hear that song, it is unique and original and the strength of the verses and choruses make are very lifting and make me happy and make me want to sing along.
When I hear something with the same folky or 12 bar blues kind of melody, I kind of roll my eyes and I crave something more original, at least original at first glance. I'm not here to pick apart melodies note for note, I'm talking about my instinctual first listen. If I know where the melody is going, I don't consider that a successful song, especially a Pixies song.
The other aspect of this is timing and song structure and etc. I can give examples if you like, but IC has interesting things like this all over. HC doesn't seem to. I consider unique timing and song structure (again, to the naked ear, I'm not talking about "well actually that is simply 4/4 time bla bla bla.") to be a vital component of the Pixies sound, and I was happy when IC came out and that remained in tact. Then HC came out and it felt very safe and kind of bland, if still some solid pop songs.
I feel I should also say I QUITE LIKE HEAD CARRIER. I think it's a perfectly good album. A few songs I really love. I'm a huge Frank Black fan and I eat up basically everything he does except NonStopErotik. This is just all motivated by the fact I think it's a bit overpraised and IC is a bit dismissed when the two are discussed, when I think IC is a far more interesting album with a lot more risks and curveballs.
And see, again, I'm not hearing what you're hearing. Cactus is the most straightforward 12-bar melody in the world. Where is My Mind and Ana are very standard pop melodies. Aside from something like Bone Machine, all those 1.0 melodies are very basic pop/folk melodies. I think you're conflating chord progressions/arrangements with melodies.
- Brian |
| Troubles A Foot |
Posted - 06/06/2019 : 21:49:56
I feel like people aren't 100% understanding what I am saying about the melodies.
I am not saying a song like, let's say...Ana, is "intricate." I have no idea what "intricate" even means in this discussion.
But I am saying a song like Ana doesn't sound like a generic folk melody you have heard in 800 other songs.
I am not saying a melody like Here Comes Your Man, one of the most melodic and accessible songs, is intricate. But I am saying when I hear that song, I don't yawn and go "heard this melody before." When I hear that song, it is unique and original and the strength of the verses and choruses make are very lifting and make me happy and make me want to sing along.
When I hear something with the same folky or 12 bar blues kind of melody, I kind of roll my eyes and I crave something more original, at least original at first glance. I'm not here to pick apart melodies note for note, I'm talking about my instinctual first listen. If I know where the melody is going, I don't consider that a successful song, especially a Pixies song.
The other aspect of this is timing and song structure and etc. I can give examples if you like, but IC has interesting things like this all over. HC doesn't seem to. I consider unique timing and song structure (again, to the naked ear, I'm not talking about "well actually that is simply 4/4 time bla bla bla.") to be a vital component of the Pixies sound, and I was happy when IC came out and that remained in tact. Then HC came out and it felt very safe and kind of bland, if still some solid pop songs.
I feel I should also say I QUITE LIKE HEAD CARRIER. I think it's a perfectly good album. A few songs I really love. I'm a huge Frank Black fan and I eat up basically everything he does except NonStopErotik. This is just all motivated by the fact I think it's a bit overpraised and IC is a bit dismissed when the two are discussed, when I think IC is a far more interesting album with a lot more risks and curveballs.
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| cptnpasty |
Posted - 06/06/2019 : 21:16:32
some of the muso posts here are really interesting.
i'm a simpler creature. the song gets better on each listen. i'm so over comparisons to the first five records. i just wait for charles thompson to put out another special record with whoever his band is.
at the moment it's the pixies. the positive there is its the fucking pixies. the negative is i have to wait longer. the era of thoroughly odd frank black records every year has come and gone.
www.guillermostitch.com |
| stuczuba |
Posted - 06/06/2019 : 21:05:56
Already looking forward to my 'Save Paz' campaign when we start playing Band Member Survivor.
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