| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| matto |
Posted - 09/08/2016 : 00:55:52
have at it
--------
baby poop, curry |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| thierry512 |
Posted - 07/10/2017 : 17:28:35
I think this is a good demonstration of what the loudness war is :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v6ML2DsBfA
|
| picpic |
Posted - 01/03/2017 : 05:01:45
I like Head Carrier, so I don't judge an album by its DR ratings.
DR range does not mean anything. It could be just white noise. But in the loudness war context, it's generally a good tool (but not the only one) to point crappy-sounding albums.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| vilainde |
Posted - 01/03/2017 : 01:53:37
Don't judge an album by its DR rating. This is the best record ever: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/112132
Denis
|
| picpic |
Posted - 12/29/2016 : 10:35:09
There's a Head Carrier entry on the loudness war comparator website (low score = less dynamic range)
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=head+carrier
You can compare the dynamic range to other Pixies records here:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr?artist=pixies
(You can also see the vinyl version of Indie Cindy has a better dynamic range than the digital version. What about the Head Carrier LP...???)
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| picpic |
Posted - 10/16/2016 : 12:05:58
Better because it is a vinyl, or better because it's less compressed ?
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 10/16/2016 : 11:08:11
quote:
Originally posted by picpic
Any HC LP owner here ? How does it sound compared to the digital version ? I wanna know.
___
"Service Unavailable"
I listen to 90% of music on vinyl.
Get the vinyl version. Short answer is, yes. It's better. Long answer - it's always better, and it's great.
Hope that helps! :P
Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow |
| Arm Arm Arm |
Posted - 10/14/2016 : 06:51:10
quote:
Originally posted by picpic
Thanks for the explanation - didn't even know that snare drums could be tuned !
___
"Service Unavailable"
Sometimes I tune my posts to Drop D. |
| peter radiator |
Posted - 10/13/2016 : 20:29:07
picpic,
I don't have any inside info on the sessions.
Dave mentioned which snare drum wound up on most of HC in a recent interview with a drumming magazine, and that rang true to my ears, as I owned and routinely used that exact same model of snare for a decade or so, back in my touring days.
--
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
| picpic |
Posted - 10/13/2016 : 12:02:05
@peter radiator: do you have any extra info about the recording session ? Seems like you had some behind the scenes details ?
@Troubles a foot: hey, welcome back. Comparing Indie Cindy & Head Carrier, I would say that, excluding compression, I much prefer the Gil Norton approach. You can tell that the mix is good and balanced. If one day we could get rid off all the (awful) compression, it will probably sound as nice as Trompe Le Monde. I'm not so optimistic about Head Carrier. It sounds like the compression is applied "per instrument" rather that on the whole mix. It's hard to explain. Like every instrument is at full volume all the time and in your face. That's probably why you cannot even feel the difference between quiet and loud parts ?
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| Troubles A Foot |
Posted - 10/13/2016 : 11:53:39
Hey guys, old member coming back years later for some Frank/Pixies talk.
The main example I use of how awful the compression is on Indie Cindy...The intro to Greens and Blues. The acoustic guitar plays, then the band comes in. But the acoustic guitar is as IN YOUR FACE and LOUD and overcompressed and smashed as when the band comes in! So there's no (what goes) BOOM, there's no catharsis, there's no dynamics. The whole album is kind of like that.
As for Head Carrier, to me the album isn't as overly compressed so much as the songs just don't naturally have many dynamics, they are all kind of pop/rock songs with all the band members playing at all times and not many loud/quiet/loud parts. |
| peter radiator |
Posted - 10/13/2016 : 11:15:58
quote:
Originally posted by picpic
Thanks for the explanation - didn't even know that snare drums could be tuned !
Lovering snare also have that kind of "dampened" or softer sound on live recordings, too. I thought it came from the trad grip he had been using since Indie Cindy.
Most every kind of musical drum can be tuned in one way or another. That changes not only the pitch of the drum, the amount of "buzz" or "snap" of the metal snares against the bottom head of the instrument, the duration of such sounds, and the amount of harmonic "over-ring" that comes off the top head of the drum when struck.
Standard trap-kit drums such as those used by most pop, rock, blues, soul, jazz, metal, punk and country acts can also be treated externally or internally to muffle, soften or even brighten their tone.
Many professional drummers take a selection of different types and sizes of snare drums into the studio with them and utilize different drums (and tunings) for different sorts of tunes, depending on what they and their bandmates and producer think is most appropriate.
Jim Keltner, for instance (drummer for Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Elvis Costello, Richard Thompson and many, many, many more) is known to show up for a session with as many as two dozen snare drums, which all sound noticeably different, just in case.
Lovering himself took a handful into the HC sessions, but reportedly wound up using a relatively inexpensive steel-bodied Ludwig snare for most all the songs.
It is a model they have made for decades, and one that is known for producing very dry and "fat" tones.
I recognize much of its signature sound in the recordings, even though they have clearly been EQ'd and treated electronically as well.
--
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
| picpic |
Posted - 10/13/2016 : 08:51:27
Thanks for the explanation - didn't even know that snare drums could be tuned !
Lovering snare also have that kind of "dampened" or softer sound on live recordings, too. I thought it came from the trad grip he had been using since Indie Cindy.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| peter radiator |
Posted - 10/13/2016 : 05:16:44
quote:
Originally posted by picpic
I was wondering why the snare drums sound was so muffled on the record.
I'm not sure if it's a compression/limiting effect, or if Dave actually sounds like that since he's using a trad grip. Or both.
Quite honestly, I believe it is an aesthetic choice on the part of the artists and the producer.
I am familiar with the make and model of snare drum he used on most of the HC sessions, and that type of sound is very easy to draw from that particular drum.
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one: they preferred the snare drum to be tuned and recorded that way within the overall context of the album.
--
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
| picpic |
Posted - 10/12/2016 : 21:42:26
I was wondering why the snare drums sound was so muffled on the record.
I'm not sure if it's a compression/limiting effect, or if Dave actually sounds like that since he's using a trad grip. Or both.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| sdon |
Posted - 10/12/2016 : 10:46:11
quote:
Originally posted by McDutchie
For me, turning the bass frequencies on the equalizer well down makes Head Carrier quite a bit more listenable on non-shitty speakers and headphones. Anyone else finding that?
I do the same with CD version
Much prefer the streaming version on my laptop :)
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
| picpic |
Posted - 10/12/2016 : 07:47:40
A bit. It would have been simplier if the album had been mastered in a more decent fashion though.
Even the latest Metallica album sounds better.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| McDutchie |
Posted - 10/12/2016 : 06:45:39
For me, turning the bass frequencies on the equalizer well down makes Head Carrier quite a bit more listenable on non-shitty speakers and headphones. Anyone else finding that? |
| picpic |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 23:55:29
Any HC LP owner here ? How does it sound compared to the digital version ? I wanna know.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 11:20:48
Okay,let's focus on the vocals now!
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 11:17:02
Sounds like normal distortion harmonics and reflective properties of the room to me.
Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 11:08:30
Thanks!
Let's just say that I don't think the intro shouldn't be "loud rock music" then!
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| peter radiator |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 09:37:52
Re: the "distortion" in the right channel during the intro to "All I Think About Now" - I think what you are referring to is a bit of repeated sonic emphasis on one specific note in his riff.
It's not distortion, per se. It sounds to me like the signal from an additional room mic far from his amp, which is added in along with the close-mic to create a greater sense of ambience and size to his guitar.
Occasionally, there will be certain notes that tend to resonate more acutely in different parts of a room, or at different distances from the front of the guitar cabinet.
I hear that kind of thing all the time in rehearsals and studio situations. There are many factors which contribute to this, including slight fluctuations in intonation of the guitar itself.
To me, it does not sound in anyway unprofessional or like some sort of a mistake. It sounds like the natural noise that loud rock music makes in a room under a microscope.
--
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
| picpic |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 08:07:43
Well I really dig Joey guitar tone on this one. It's loud, but it sounds good to me. Maybe on some heaphones it generates some extra distortion that can hurt the ear.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 05:24:06
Some kind of distortion that I don't really like
Like it wasn't intentional
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| picpic |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 02:35:02
Joey intro on All I Think About Now with headphones tickles my eardrum, too 
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 10/02/2016 : 23:53:17
Ok, the intro of All I Think About Now, Joeys guitar is so noisey.
Listening with headphones, it sounds very disturbing in my right ear.
This is supposed to be the ballad right?
And I still hear nasty vocal processing on a lot of tracks. Especially Oona, Tenement Song, Classic Masher and Paz lead vocal on AITAN
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| picpic |
Posted - 09/30/2016 : 13:49:40
Don't be sorry. It's great if you can appreciate it.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 09/30/2016 : 13:29:37
I feel like I'm cheating here. Good source, good listening format = good experience. Sorry folks.
Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 09/30/2016 : 12:42:38
quote:
Originally posted by picpic
Let's clear this up: this topic ic about production issues. Not about the music. I love the music. I love the new album.
___
"Service Unavailable"
Hey man I think we're mostly on the same page! :) It's all good! I only name dropped you because you were the man with the balls enough to straight up call out Joey on his twitter lol 
Nothing but love brother, I hear ya
Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow |
| TheScooper |
Posted - 09/30/2016 : 11:17:48
"I think his goal was to mimic a live sound, like you're in the room with the band, their sound hitting you in the face"
Funny, since the live versions sound so, so much better.
I don't have any grasp on the technical side of things, but am in complete agreement with PicPic - I love these songs, and think they deserve better than what we're hearing. Double-y so for IC. Just very frustrating.
Hopefully someone will put together the whole record in the form of live performances at some point. But in any case - they are making new music, and it is great music, so thank void for that |
| picpic |
Posted - 09/30/2016 : 10:59:10
Let's clear this up: this topic ic about production issues. Not about the music. I love the music. I love the new album.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| picpic |
Posted - 09/30/2016 : 10:40:37
I love this album.
That's why I'm frustrated.
I'm a bit sorry you ain't getting that. :-/
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 09/30/2016 : 10:34:26
picpic - man, I love ya - but damn what a tough crowd! At some point ya gotta just listen to the music brother.
Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow |
| picpic |
Posted - 09/30/2016 : 10:08:56
Afer hearing the lossless version on a very good system:
Head carrier - vocals too loud, muddy, confuse mix, too much bass, bad mastering
Classic masher - more dry, better mastering, snare drums still muddy, chorus volume artificially raised - like we can hear dalgety turns the volume knob up during choruses. Weird. This song deserved so much better than this
Baals back: vocals too loud and too muffled at the same time, BF faux-screaming "trick" technique too obvious. Like he screams while whispering. You can't hear that on a good mix, but here it's so obvious. Band sounds muddy and hidden behind vocals
You might as well be gone - good bass in verses much clearer than in previous songs. Volume is again pushed in choruses, thats stupid. Choruses sound less dynamic with this technique
Oona - better mix. Choruses sounds a bit clearer than in previous songs. Clearly less worst than the rest. But still compressed. But better.
Talent - supper muffled snare drums , cant hear much bass on this. Snare drums comes back on bridge when guitars are quieter. Classic stupid compression artefact.
Tenement song - bass is clearer on this one and snares too. Chorus sounds compressed, as always.
All i think about now: sounds much better than other songs. Still compressed when guitars starts to get in the way of everything else, but a bit better.
Plaster - no loud guitar here, so it sounds WAY better.. Of course. Thats probably why more people like this song.. Less compressed. Less guitar on the forefront. Dalgety didnt put all the guitar sound in full volume. So it sounds better.
Saints - again. Quieter song without guitar volume pushed up. So less compression on drums. So it sounds better. You can hear drums, and bass.
Conclusion. same problem on the whole record: as soon as Dalgety pushes the guitar layers at full volume, everything else becomes hidden behind them thanks to the insane compression ratio. So, quieter songs sound much more dynamic and pleasant to listen to.
Sorry for my poor english. Hard to find words to describe things accurately. But I guess you get the idea.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
| picpic |
Posted - 09/30/2016 : 09:02:46
OK - just bought the lossless version from Qobuz.
Little more treble & of course definition than the leaked 256k MP3 (press version ?). But otherwise that's the same mastering. So, nothing new.
With this little extra treble, snare drums sound better.
But, as I said earlier, I listened to the album on very good and "bright" speakers, and it sounds less terrible this way. I think I can understand now what Dalgety was aiming at when producing the record. When listening to this album on those kind of speakers, it's like you have the band in front on you playing at full volume. I think his goal was to mimic a live sound, like you're in the room with the band, their sound hitting you in the face. And, at the same time, he probably wanted to make the record "listenable" on portable devices and IPods. So, compression makes sense for him.
I still don't like it, but considering what he was aiming at, I don't blame him... But I still think the album would have sounded 10x better without compression. As most modern records.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
