| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| pot |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 20:43:32
In the grand scheme of things I mean. Amongst the great songwritiers of our time and the great frontmen, he is without a doubt, a legend.
Apart from the best sing song writer of all time accolade, where do you place him in the world of artists and musicians?
You first, I'm afraid.
-cult-of-ray-wassabee- |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| soderstromk |
Posted - 07/18/2009 : 18:49:51
#1 on my list. I'm not worried about lists of others, except that it would be nice if I got to hear him more frequently and unexpectedly.
I listened to a lot of popular music when I was young: beatles, who, doors, cars. About the mid-80s it became less interesting. Gang of four and the cure were good, but they came slowly. Jazz became more interesting - no inane lyrics to have to shake off. Pat Metheny, Dave Torn, Bill Frisell, John Zorn, anything Jack DeJohnette played on. Some of the minimalist classical stuff was good - I still really like Steve Reich and wish there was more of it. I listened to what little Copland there is, and Mozart. And then it seems like new jazz lost freshness, and as good as classical is, it doesn't take long to memorize a large part of the greatest stuff...I didn't listen to much until the clouds parted and heard a bit of Debaser on XM. Figuring-out who was responsible for that bit of Debaser has led to FBF being #1 on my list. Thank God for FBF. |
| dthomas850 |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 04:31:32
I am basing my response on the most recent recordings and overall quality of songwriting.
1. Robert Pollard - The 2 latest Boston Spaceships CD's are incredibly good, as well as the GBV catalogue and all his various solo and side projects.
2. Neil Finn - Crowded House's "Time on Earth" slightly beats out Franks latest, but not by much.
3. Frank Black - The release of "Golem" might move frank up to #2
4. Elvis Costello - His latest discs aren't as good as his classics.
5. David Byrne - I wasn't very impressed by his latest collaboration with Eno, but the concert was great.
For me, numbers 2-4 on my list are very close, they could all be a tie. But I definitely consider Frank one of the greatest recent singer/songwriters.
Dan Thomas |
| Jose Jones |
Posted - 07/11/2009 : 12:19:00
quote:
Originally posted by Itchload
Frank's got a couple albums in the "cannon" (Surfer Rosa, Doolittle, Teenager of the Year), but I don't think his Catholics/Nashville period will get their due for a few more years.
Think about how often now you see obscure music blogs touting all these forgotten psych and garage rock albums that were ignored at the time but sound great now. That will happen with the Catholics albums for sure, probably sold to a different (non-Pixies) audience who will appreciate them as neglected rock classics.
So maybe not "just due", but surely down the road they'll be more fans. I mean, I don't know anyone who doesn't like Frank Black, and everyone I know who has given time to his solo albums loves them. So it's not just us, it just takes time to get used to him--he is great and his albums will persevere and continue to gain audiences. Maybe in 30 years or so he'll have inched his way into the "great songwriters" cannon.
well said. and on a similar note, he'll be less easily-forgotten since he stands out among all other songwriters in terms of subject matter and approach.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
| Itchload |
Posted - 07/11/2009 : 11:16:12
Frank's got a couple albums in the "cannon" (Surfer Rosa, Doolittle, Teenager of the Year), but I don't think his Catholics/Nashville period will get their due for a few more years.
Think about how often now you see obscure music blogs touting all these forgotten psych and garage rock albums that were ignored at the time but sound great now. That will happen with the Catholics albums for sure, probably sold to a different (non-Pixies) audience who will appreciate them as neglected rock classics.
So maybe not "just due", but surely down the road they'll be more fans. I mean, I don't know anyone who doesn't like Frank Black, and everyone I know who has given time to his solo albums loves them. So it's not just us, it just takes time to get used to him--he is great and his albums will persevere and continue to gain audiences. Maybe in 30 years or so he'll have inched his way into the "great songwriters" cannon.
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| Sam |
Posted - 07/09/2009 : 00:39:34
Same goes for me, i have never collected an artists work so greedily as i have with Black Francis. Not to mention seeing him solo / Pixies / Catholics / precores. All availible vinyl from Charles Thompsons bar some of those cool bootleg records from the 90s are in my collection.
I have some nice stuff though, that sweet inter radio Paris record sits proudly in there, along with long live the surf guitar boot on vinyl, souls on fire vinyl, and some other beauties.
Shit now that i read this i think i have an issue. |
| fumanbru |
Posted - 07/09/2009 : 00:07:11
quote:
Originally posted by bernerdawg
quote:
Originally posted by danjersey
Of all the mediums mass produced, I have collected Frank Black Francis music most thoroughly and with the greatest satisfaction.
I could not have said it better myself.
ditto
 "I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!"...long live snitz!! |
| bernerdawg |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 14:09:25
quote:
Originally posted by danjersey
Of all the mediums mass produced, I have collected Frank Black Francis music most thoroughly and with the greatest satisfaction.
I could not have said it better myself. |
| killebrew |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 19:16:07
i think he is too smart for most people... but i think just the people he has influenced he belongs in the top 50 of all time. i think he is up there with tom waits at least. how many times have you read spin or rolling stone and they made a reference to him? i think rock and roll should get on its knees and kiss his ass. |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 00:32:57
He's usually comes behind her.
... sorry, it's late and I couldn't resist
 "Now you're officially my woman. Kudos. I can't say I don't envy you." |
| Jose Jones |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 16:52:19
quote:
Originally posted by fumanbru
here's my top 5
1. frank black
2. black francis
3. floop's mom
4. jeff tweedy
5. ozzy
"I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!"...long live snitz!!
shouldn't tweedy be before floop's ma?
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
| fumanbru |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 15:22:42
quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
Hard to get eulogistic when even his biggest forum is lacklustre.
in all fairness, i don't think this forum being lacklustre correlates to how good Frank is.
i'm not going to argue with you about the forum being lacklustre. it's been extremely lacklustre, for a while. one might even say that it 'sucks balls' or that 'bores them to death.' or... that reading posts by members of this forum, to them, is like watching paint dry, while listening to the sound of nails on a chalkboard. or that the experience is like watching one of those animal shows on tv where the elderly member of the pack gets taken down and is slowly being eaten by a pack of lions.
nonetheless, whatever one might say... all forums go through slow periods. especially when there hasn't been much new material to discuss
ya..we need to spice things up to get the young hip crowd back. i'll do my part and start a new wilco thread in the general chat area. someone else can start up the "lick my balls" thread.
back on topic. in my opinion "speedy marie" is a songwriting masterpiece.
here's my top 5
1. frank black
2. black francis
3. floop's mom
4. jeff tweedy
5. ozzy
"I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!"...long live snitz!! |
| danjersey |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 15:10:01
quote:
Originally posted by pot
Apart from the best sing song writer of all time accolade, where do you place him in the world of artists and musicians?
Of all the mediums mass produced, I have collected Frank Black Francis music most thoroughly and with the greatest satisfaction.
|
| trobrianders |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 12:40:09
quote:
Originally posted by floop
reading posts by members of this forum, to them, is like watching paint dry, while listening to the sound of nails on a chalkboard. or that the experience is like watching one of those animal shows on tv where the elderly member of the pack gets taken down and is slowly being eaten by a pack of lions.
That bad or someone drive over your pepper patch this morning?
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
| floop |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 11:52:42
quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
Hard to get eulogistic when even his biggest forum is lacklustre.
in all fairness, i don't think this forum being lacklustre correlates to how good Frank is.
i'm not going to argue with you about the forum being lacklustre. it's been extremely lacklustre, for a while. one might even say that it 'sucks balls' or that 'bores them to death.' or... that reading posts by members of this forum, to them, is like watching paint dry, while listening to the sound of nails on a chalkboard. or that the experience is like watching one of those animal shows on tv where the elderly member of the pack gets taken down and is slowly being eaten by a pack of lions.
nonetheless, whatever one might say... all forums go through slow periods. especially when there hasn't been much new material to discuss |
| hammerhands |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 08:52:30
The new number two, you are number six. |
| trobrianders |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 01:55:47
My guess is he won't have even Neil Young or Lou Reed kind of mass appeal because he doesn't address the mass in his vocal style the way even they do. He doesn't set out to entertain anybody or make sentimental connections with his audience (you see, he forgot the sugar again). Even Lou Reed and Neil Young do that in their own way. You've got to go at least half way to meet a broad audience. He's naturally more modest or 'real' or whatever and only picks up the here and there local support of those out looking for unsentimental shit (like us). He doesn't need the adoration of millions. One little blip and he totally flips.
As long as that's fine by him it's fine by me too. If his delivery changed he'd get that broader recognition I bet. But I doubt his style will change that way.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 00:11:11
"are our experiences waiting for album releases and standing in front of rich gilbert going nuts at some smoky bar requisite in order to be as in to him as many of us are?"
An excellent question and I would say partially. But a lot of what I love about FB came before I ever was a fan, or rather is what made me a fan. I'd never seen him live or waited for an album excitedly, it was just my friend giving me some music that just seemed to get better and better with every listen. Complexity revealed in layers that peeled off with every listen. Great lyrics, great music, and great should be taken to encompass interesting/provocative/any number of other superlative adjectives and not the throw away term we use today.
It was listening to particularly Teenager/orange that got me in a car heading for Portland, OR to have my first brush with the man and Eric Drew Feldman as they toured for BLD/DW and album which I had not had to wait for but fell in my lap (well, a pre-release version of it anyway) as I was absorbing the rest of the catalogue.
So in answer to your question, while I think it an interesting point, I'm going to say no. Will he ever be loved by the masses? Maybe. Not on a Beatles levels, probably, at least not as Frank Black, but perhaps in a Neil Young sort of way. There's enough meat, at least in his pre-reversion era, to leave us gnawing those old bones for some time. Post-reversion, I'm not so sure. I think he decided he'd done enough 'interesting' or what he refers to as 'alternative' and decided it was time to just give the people what they, in his opinion at least, want. And unfortunately for me at least that means simplicity, catchiness, and vocal shredding are more important than complexity/layers, substance, and so on. Thankfully, they're not mutually exclusive, so there are still some tracks that manage to have both, it's just that it's not every track anymore.
End exposition.
Begin head smacking.
"Now you're officially my woman. Kudos. I can't say I don't envy you." |
| Jose Jones |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 09:38:19
if someone were to get into frank 10 years from now, would they be so in love and enraptured with him? are our experiences waiting for album releases and standing in front of rich gilbert going nuts at some smoky bar requisite in order to be as in to him as many of us are? if so, the man will never be as beloved by the masses. in rolling stone 41 years from now, when they do the top 1000 albums of the past 100 years, will frank be on there free of the pixies? no. the arctic monkeys probably will be though. psshh.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
| trobrianders |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 11:57:34
He's just a blip in the grand scheme, there's too much else going on. Hard to get eulogistic when even his biggest forum is lacklustre.
But my top singer-songwriter still.
_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo |
| the acorahs |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 11:45:51
Obv I would reckon him to be very high in my list, he used to be my number one, but now that dubious accolade goes to kristin hersh. But Frank is a very close #2.
But I think within this forum, it is clearly the converted who are being preached to, in the GRAND scheme of things then Frank is not held in particular high regard.
Sure Pixies albums are always in the "top 100 bestest albums eva 2009 spring edition!" but in terms of the catholic and solo stuff, reviewers tend to refer to this as like some sort of barren period.
I guess he is thought of as kind of mid-tier, works of utter genius and vast swathes of "blah".
That is not my opinion, it is merely what I have deduced from reading articles, reviews, opinions on the man.
My friends and colleagues and pets and neighbours all tend to be the muso type, but I have yet to meet anyone who likes Frank's solo stuff (before I have got them into it of course). And I guess that conveys a lot.
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it is a wretched life and vanity is repulsive
www.myspace.com/thesexymistakes |
| Idalgo Clandestino |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 02:09:24
he's a pioneer, a paragon, an archetype and a prototype,
he is an engine and he is a little sauce !
just my engines and a little sauce |
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