| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 03:11:57
In a collective push to get our song db as chock full of information as possible, we're going to experiment with posting a new song every couple days to the forum.
This is where you come in. If you know anything about the song (or are interested in trying to find out through some skilled sleuthing) then the idea is that you post your knowledge (with source if possible).
If it's conjecture, that's great too (just please label it as such), because it'll help get people talking.
El Barto, the Song DB Master, will then take what elements he can from the thread and put them into the db. It should be full of tidbits in no time!
What sort of information are we looking for? Anything that gives insight into the song's meaning, creation, etc for one. As well, interesting nuggets of information.
Examples:
Descriptions of (possible) song references
Quotes from FB or other notables on the song
Definitions to words you think might not be immediately obvious
If you're not sure about something, post and ask! You may jog someone's memory. - Cult_Of_Frank
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| 32 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tobafett |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 20:56:52
Oh, and do you think FB was doing some tongue-in-cheek about the windows being big and the controversy around Chet's death? The pic posted by chickenwithtwoheads shows that the windows aren't large...
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| tobafett |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 20:54:51
wow...just checked out the bio on Chet Baker--he was born about 20 miles from my house! |
| Jason |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 18:29:58
Almost every one of the top 20 results from a google search of "johnny horton" and "johnny rebel" goes to great pains to state that they're not the same guy. In a post here (http://www.wanderers2.com/trivia/messages/25923.html), a fella, while not claiming to be an authority on this, offers up a "fact" that he got somewhere saying that "Johnny Rebel" first recorded in 1966 (and may even still be actively making music) while Johnny Horton died in 1960. No one seems to have any hard facts so, personally, I give Johnny Horton the benefit of the doubt.
I haven't heard any of these Johnny Rebel tracks, but I am wondering if this is all just those file-sharing mislabels that turns into a big disinformation glut. Like my little sister is convinced that the Pixies once recorded a cover of "Video Killed the Radio Star" because she downloaded a version by the Presidents of the United States of America that some dope labeled as "Pixies".
Anyway, Frank has namechecked Johnny Horton three times. Don't forget the "Hang on to Your Ego" b-side. I read somewhere that Johnny Horton borrowed the riff from the Pixies' "U-Mass" for a song back in 1957 and Frank's just returning the homage. |
| chickenwithtwoheads |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 15:13:03
Chet Baker fell out of one of these windows:
http://members.home.nl/jazz-wereld/F-hotel.jpg
I'm bored with the valleys and bored by the peaks. So I bought a ticket to the Pixies |
| SpudBoy |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 14:11:57
There is a lot of controversy around this issue, and no clear answer, since the racist songs are almost universally under the moniker "Johnny Rebel". This was the name adopted by one C.J. Trahan in Louisiana, and he released 12 tracks under this name starting in 1966, mostly of a racist nature. There are more songs in circulation than the 12 originally attributed to Johnny Rebel, and the dates are not clear on all of them. Johnny Horton died in 1960, but there is speculation that he may have been the original Johnny Rebel based on the murkiness of the dates of some of the tracks known to exist, and the vocal variation of the tracks (sounds like a few different people). One of those voices is startlingly similar to Horton's voice on his well known hits. The dates tend to matter less when you consider that Johnnny Horton, although dead, released his last record in 1963. The studios held on to a lot.
A mystery to be sure, but I tend to agree with Apl's idea that the lyrical inference has to do with racism, even if only based on the potentially false innuendo.
I have heard a couple of these tracks sandwiched in with "North to Alaska" and "The Battle of New Orleans" and I gotta say it sure as hell sounds like the same guy.
"High fructose corn syrup: It makes the demons worse." - Wesley Willis |
| VoVat |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 13:28:21
Wasn't there a post on some other part of the forum suggesting that some of those racist songs weren't actually by Horton? I mean, I wouldn't doubt that Horton was a racist, but would songs celebrating that fact have been acceptable even back in the day?
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
| apl4eris |
Posted - 03/13/2005 : 12:39:14
We discovered recently while looking for old Cash/Williams/old country mp3s (well, SpudBoy did) some very...VERY disturbing information about Johnny Horton.
Johnny Horton was an absolute outright racist, and had many hit songs celebrating the fact. I imagine what Frank is singing about in the "I saw the ghost of Johnny Horton" ("If it Takes all Night") is the narrating character driving through rural America and seeing the echoes of Horton's attitude in the local terrain/populace. I certainly know I've seen it.
A quick google/slsk search should take you there. But be warned, it's not pretty.
Don't know if that info is useful to this song in particular, but it may be an extra insight into one of the characters mentioned, the psyche of a certain sector of the country music scene then, and the gestalt of the times.
I kind of see this song as FB's ode to the tragedies and mythical nature of early country music (the amazing number of coincidences and Shakespearean-like tragedies in that era are stunning); a chapter of American music history, similar to what McLean was doing with "American Pie".
<temporarily out of order> |
| HeywoodJablome |
Posted - 03/12/2005 : 22:12:32
I love this website! I think I failed to mention this in any other post of mine. Threads like this are awsome! I appreciate whomever keeps this machine running. |
| The Susquatch |
Posted - 03/12/2005 : 18:41:20
Thought the song was a bit cheesy first day, mediocre, but i cant help liking it
Hang on to your Taco! |
| kathryn |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 11:38:08
No prob. It's the purdiest part of LA (ask floop). I
don't know why Frank left for Oregon but it's all moot now
that Lady Love and The Family live there. All that matters
is where Jack lives.
 I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 11:21:45
yay Kathryn... thats what i'm talking about
 cats have nine lives/ which makes them ideal for experimentation |
| kathryn |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 11:07:56
Thought I'd add that Hermosa Strand is in Hermosa Beach,
one of the pretty little beachside parts in Los Angeles' South Bay
(last song on Pistolero). I am not sure if Frank ever lived in the
South Bay or Hermosa but I do recall that at some point he
lived in Chatsworth, inland L.A. Anyway, Hermosa Strand...lots of
little bars, alleys, the beach of course, a nice bikepath...FYI
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 09:51:58
sure thing, i'll do that now
cats have nine lives/ which makes them ideal for experimentation |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 09:36:07
Nah, that's cool. Just trying to help. I couldn't find anything else either... maybe it's time to move to the next song?
"Join the Cult of Frank / Seriously." |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 08:58:51
i'm getting archived threads ok using the parameters apl gave i just think it's pretty hit and miss, i'm having to do things in a very odd fashion to get results, and the only time i ever get results with the forum search engine is if i look for something in the title and thats not always picking stuff up
:(
maybe someone else will have more luck, i tried my bestest! honestly boss
(don't fire me)
cats have nine lives/ which makes them ideal for experimentation |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 08:49:21
The only thing is you won't find archived threads on google generally (unless they're linked to elsewhere). So you have to search using our really poor search engine for something in the subject to find old stuff...
"Join the Cult of Frank / Seriously." |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 08:44:15
i gave up looking for it, i'm still googling the threads and not having a ton of joy |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 08:20:45
This was the only real thing I could find on Chet specifically:
http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=3383
Not much there, I'm afraid.
"Join the Cult of Frank / Seriously." |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 07:41:45
and...
"Yeah. I like old jazz. Chet Baker is almost the most crossover jazz artist at this point because of a particular film that was made and because he was white, and he's a famous junkie! He represents that West Coast jazz that I really like, that kind of breezy, sunny, laid back, not too intense, mid 1950s jazz. It was kind of before he was a drug addict. The one record I love is Chet Baker and Crew."
from Times Pop Music Critic October 8, 2004
thread link: http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10103
article link: http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/08/Floridian/Return_of_the_prodiga.shtml
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| starmekitten |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 07:37:00
I'm still looking for that post, but it is a known that frank likes Chet Baker:
"People that put out records and go on tour like me; I don't tend to listen a lot of those people, nothing personal. Plus it's hard because you jump in the van and you have a four hour drive you don't really want to hear the new blah blah blah, you want to put on a Chet Baker record or you want to listen to a Neil Young record. That's the way it is when you're over 30 man, you know?
---from earlashs' fb interview posted 11/12/2002
http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=490
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| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 06:29:43
Incidentally, I googled and confirmed that Chet Baker died falling out of a second story window May 13, 1988.
Is was wondering how he tied into the Hiram/Johnny/Billie story at first. I guess this song is mourning the death of the good old music and how everything, in the music world, is now new.
"Join the Cult of Frank / Seriously." |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 06:23:14
I also remember the Chesney/Chet Baker reference though I didn't know about falling out of a window. I always thought that part about Holland seemed to come from nowhere.
I don't know where we'd find a source on this, but I don't see a source on the existing reference, so presumably our collective memories would have to suffice. I'm not sure what else to say about this one, nothing I can think of.
Jim, it'd be nice if the references in the song itself were linked to the notes at the bottom, too, if that's possible?
"Join the Cult of Frank / Seriously." |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 04:06:42
wow guys, thats sweet but wrong..
the stuff is already in the db, I just posted it in case it jogged other memories, I've really struggled to find anything that isn't already there either on the forum or t'internet (there's a northernism for you kiki)
and yeah, pretty and cute like in Misery.
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| kathryn |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 19:19:17
Wicked smaht, as we say in Boston.
But that's off topic. On topic, my god
is she cute! No, seriously, this stuff's
knocking my socks off. I didn't know that
about "the old Skyline" and I used to
live in Austin!
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
| shineoftheever |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 18:54:51
not only is she pretty, she is smart too!
You can go eat a decroded piece of crap! |
| kathryn |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 18:02:17
Go Tre!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 07:13:21
Ah, I read that line twice and somehow missed that part...
Thanks for posting this, Kitten. :)
"Join the Cult of Frank / Seriously." |
| jediroller |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 07:06:21
Although lyrically blue, there is also a strong feeling of positivity and moving on, confirmed by a track that is revealed to be both our favourites, 'Everything Is New', in which jazz pianos and guitar shimmer seductively behind a beautifully sung chorus.
I assume it's supposed to be "both our favourite" and means "Frank's and the writer's".
Pack all my shit, get on a plane
Follow the sunset for 24 hours |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 06:12:54
I can't seem to see where it says EIN is Frank's fave?
"Join the Cult of Frank / Seriously." |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 05:25:40
cool!
found this also, apparantly franks favourite track on the album..
http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=3108&SearchTerms=Logo
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| jediroller |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 04:58:31
Someone also mentioned here (I'm sorry, can't find the original post) that the first verse refers to Chesney "Chet" Baker (1929-1988), the famous West Coast jazz musician, who died after falling out of a window in Amsterdam.
Pack all my shit, get on a plane
Follow the sunset for 24 hours |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 03:15:32
links to database
http://frankblack.net/songs/db.asp?mode=release-details&ReleaseID=220
http://frankblack.net/songs/db.asp?mode=release-details&ReleaseID=220
some info already there...
Available on:
Show Me Your Tears [Album - September 9, 2003]
Everything Is New [Single / EP - August 4, 2003]
Lyrics:
Everything is new
When the sky is blue
You got everything to do
Chesney quit the army and he start a band
He used to play that club down at Hermosa Strand
I think they're changing the name again
Down in Holland where the windows are big
They paint the buildings bright
Because they figured the rain is coming who knows when?
Everything is new
When the sky is blue
You got everything to do [x2]
Hiram said to John have you met my wife?
Someday she'll be yours when I lose my life
He lost it after playing the old Skyline
Seven years later after that same gig
John took the wheel, but when he got to the bridge
Billy Jean was alone for the second time
Everything is new
When the sky is blue
You got everything to do [x4]
Definitions and References:
Hiram, John, Billy Jean [entire second verse]
Hiram Williams, better known as Hank Williams, is considered the father of contemporary country music. He met 19-year old Billie Jean Jones in the fall of 1952 and the couple married that October. John, or Johnny Horton, another early country star, met Hank Williams in 1952 when Williams rejoined the Lousiana Hayride, a weekly live radio show broadcasting out of Shreveport, Louisiana. Williams became a sort of mentor for Horton. Hank Williams died on January 1, 1953 in the back of Cadillac on his way to a concert. After his death, Horton became close to Williams' widow, and in September 1953, Billie Jean and Johnny Horton married. On November 4, 1960, Horton was involved in an auto accident and died on his way to the hospital, suffering an almost similar and just as tragic death as Williams.
Skyline
The Skyline Club of Austin, TX, which opened in 1948. Through a strange twist of events, the Skyline became the location for the final concerts of both Hank Williams and Johnny Horton. On January 1, 1953, Williams died in his sleep in the back of a car while being transported between gigs. Horton died when his car was struck by a drunk driver after his gig at the Skyline on November 4, 1960.
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