| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Aurora-borealis |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 15:02:44
Hi,
Even though I did not become a member until recently, I have been hanging around the forum for about a year now; and not once have I "met" a fellow fan who had anything nice to say about "The Cult Of Ray." Is this really the common opinion of the FB-fan or what?(Actually, I have never seen the album beeing mentioned in any other connection than in those "I joined the Cult of Ray and..."-signatures.) Personally, I'm really fond of this wierd, noisy and, at times, poppy piece of sheer FB-quirkyness.
Please, let me know what you think about this baby!
Thanks... |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Triakel |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 08:35:09
Thanks guys. Very kind of you. I realize it's a little obsessive/compulsive to so deconstruct a rock song. But I always felt it was an awfully cool rock song! I've listened to symphonies where the professor says "and here is where the gods create the firmament" or somesuch. And the composer drags the thing out for 10 minutes. So why not apply that a 3-minute rock song? Seems valid to me! : ) |
| speedy_m |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 14:33:36
That was a great post Triakel. I've always liked the song, but I never deconstructed it to that extent (even though it's our nature!). I have a new found appreciation for the imagery of the song, and the use of mood and sound to convey the content of the lyrics. Cheers to you, and cheers to the Sad Punk in all of us. We would all do well to take a moment to evolve from the sea... |
| hWolsky |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 13:47:23
Oh, you speak very well, dear japanophile friend...
HW |
| Triakel |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 07:09:27
I liked the album, but it's not one I often listen to nowadays. I think my problem with it (then and now) is that it sounds "normal" compared to his previous work. I remember hearing "Punk Rock City" and cringing a little, thinking "This is *average.* He's done so much better than this."
Were I to have heard the later Catholics records first, however, I'm not sure of my reaction. COR was a big change after what came before and it took some getting used to. It felt like his attempt to make a mainstream record.
That said, I listened to it as much as any alt. rock record from the '90s. It held up well against the competition. I didn't see him tour for about 5 years, so that might factor.
Regarding the mention of "Jane the Queen of Love" -- it is probably my least favorite Frank tune (which means I merely like, but not love it). It doesn't grab me either musically or lyrically. But it's interesting to see some folks love it. My girlfriend thinks the music is interesting, and likes the song. I think my problem is that I can't get past the chorus. It colors my perception of the rest. He has a few songs cross into some sort of Elton John/Billy Joel territory that give me the same "wha?" feeling as when Elvis Costello tried to do country.
But to each her own. I also happen to love "Hermaphroditos," *because* it's Stonesy. "The Sad Punk" and "Velouria," which I've seen criticized on these boards, are also among my favs.
"Velouria" knocked me flat when I heard it back in '90. It was on the radio, if you can believe it. In *Iowa.* Anyway, it struck me as weird and beautiful, and hopelessly melodic, like a vision of the movie "Metropolis" to which I could actually relate. I played it over and over ... I thought it did for the pop song what "Major Tom" did for the ballad.
"Sad Punk" also amazed me. The velocity and volume are unrelenting. The lyrics are vague but (IMHO) profound in the way that good minimalist poetry is -- "dumber" but deeper ... The song doesn't just describe, but *becomes*, the primordial urge to destroy.
Shiva, etc.
I love the abrupt ballad near the end, because it comes like a brief moment of creation in the overpowering storm of destruction. Volcanos stop erupting, worlds stop colliding, seas cease to boil. Just peace, and the slow scramble toward existence ... "Evolving from the sea would not be too much time for me" ... life, suddenly, but for only a comparative instant.
Then the maelstrom returns with greater force, tearing up the beauty into its component parts like a child destroying one sand castle to build another -- reminding us of the brevity of it all and where control really lies.
The song seems apt as the universe (as we know it) is chaotic, destructive, equally creative, but mostly dead. But here we drift on a tiny, improbable island of life -- our turn might only last a few instellar moments.
I realize the lyrics tell of a "punk" with a gun who just wants to f--- things up. But that curiosity/urge toward destruction -- "I'm just like anyone/I want to feel the road of tar beneath the wheel of extinction" -- I feel like Frank is saying the urge is the same within the elements, humanity, or a single, sad punk. It's part of the fabric of existence. It's more than just "he's destructive." It's "we're destructive, but it's what we are."
But Frank might say it's all just bubble gum. I read a post on another list recently in which some guy insisted adamantly the song was *clearly* about the death of punk music, that Frank explicitly declared it in the lyrics. Got into a little flame war with a punk kid over it. So what do I know?
But certainly, the song hits me in the Schoenberg plexus, if you know what I mean. A visual corollary is the "tunnel" scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey." Chaos, chaos, chaos ... peace. Chaos, chaos, chaos ... Perplexing but beautiful.
|
| langdonboom |
Posted - 11/22/2004 : 13:03:38
I will always go to bat for this album -- sure its not his best, probably his 'worst' but still that's a cut above other bands' best work!
ESPECIALLY the title track, Cult of Ray -- I am DYING to hear this song playing with the Catholics, in full Solid Gold/Massif Central ROCKING OUT mode.
And Shazeb Andleeb is one of his best 'ballads', too.
Alienation confers freedom. Obscurity will keep you pure. Pray that you won’t be discovered young, so that you won’t be tempted to sell out early, or won’t be seduced by celebrity.
--THE PATH OF THE ARTIST |
| stymie |
Posted - 11/22/2004 : 09:32:09
COR is fantastic. I remember being at one of the concerts on that tour and I was being drunk and silly. The stage was two feet high and the crowd was pushing everyone up front. Anyway, I had my they might be giants hat on and i was making it a point to show frank how much I loved that band as well. He told me that if I showed the hat one more time that he was gonna kick me in taco, then proceded to play the song. How about those b-sides to that album great stuff. At another show a few days later In requested " can I get a witness " , but the band said they didn't remember how to play it, insteat they they played " Village of the sun " Great times, back then! |
| ispini tapaidh |
Posted - 11/19/2004 : 09:07:28
COR is a great album to cycle to. For what that's worth. And Kicked in the taco caused me to jump around like an idiot after getting out of the shower once. Oh how I laughed. |
| no_one_talks |
Posted - 11/19/2004 : 06:48:00
i can't understand why so many people decry this record (i'm talking about COR). especially in france. you can't find a single article in any rock magasine to defend it. it's a really good album though. i like it as much as dog in the sand even if it's not the same sound. Kicked in the taco!!! One of my favorite FB song! |
| Adam |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 13:31:01
For me to find the weakest song, I must go back to the Pixies and say both Velouria and Havalina. Verlouria is ok, and I have the cd and 7" single of it, but It just grates me a little. And Havalina, I've just never been a fan. I was trying to think of some solo stuff that is weaker, but I'm blanking right now.
Free the Heel! |
| hWolsky |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 12:51:04
You're a big fan, aren't you? What is according to you the weakest song he did?
HW |
| Adam |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 12:29:13
HW, "Your Such A Wire" is also a good song. Not great like Jane, but damn good. And how close so you have to stand to hit your head on a cabinet? I generally stand back far enough to avoid that.
Free the Heel! |
| hWolsky |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 11:48:45
Bowie, gimme some Bowie, I would bow to Bowie... Gimme some head... Hallo HolidaySon... You know me now... Moon dust will cover U...
HW |
| The Holiday Son |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 05:45:17
quote:
Originally posted by hWolsky
Isn't it a Whitney Whatsoever Houston (Texas) cover? With different words and chorus... it would have been better... I would even dare say that 'You're such a wire' is a piece of fine art compared to that song...
There there.
Someone need to watch a david bowie dvd and get a goodnight sleep! |
| vilainde |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 01:33:12
Yawn
Denis
"If you do 7-Up, you can't ever do Coke or Pepsi. You've got to hold out for the best deal possible. It's about me being a smart businesswoman as well as a musician." - Jessica Simpson |
| hWolsky |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 14:57:47
Gimme some Taran!!!
HW |
| hWolsky |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 14:57:00
For Adam: My screaming "dammit" when my head hit a cupboard was also full of emotion...
HW |
| hWolsky |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 14:55:07
Isn't it a Whitney Whatsoever Houston (Texas) cover? With different words and chorus... it would have been better... I would even dare say that 'You're such a wire' is a piece of fine art compared to that song...
Death is a Ripp-Off
HW |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 14:37:10
Jane the Queen of Love
if they would have been on Cult of Ray
(and it would have been recorded in a COR manner)
it would have been one of the best songs of the record
 "I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
| Adam |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 13:56:10
the worst Frank Black song is 'Jane the Queen of Love'
WRONG.This is one of the 5 best off BLD. The live versions have so much emotion in the screams of "Jane".
Free the Heel! |
| ramona |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 13:22:12
I have always said I love Cult of Ray. That was the first tour I saw Frank on and the first CD of his I bought. So, I have always been on Cult of Ray's side!
_____________________________________________________________________
If you see me, look surprised
If you don't, then pass me by
And I might even touch your sleeve
Oh, as you turn to leave
________________________________
http://prettycrabby.com |
| BLT |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 13:06:27
"Cult of Ray" (the song) is one of his greatest-- so is "Shazeb Andleeb." Lyle Workman is in his finest form. The production is fantastic. However, there are several throwaway songs on the album (something which has been discussed on this forum ad nauseum). I now like it much better than at the time of its release, but this album actually put me off of Frank Black for a couple years. |
| prozacrat |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 11:37:44
I think dogjones was pretty close to the mark. I always thought that it was the awkward puberty of Frank Black's solo career. I love the album. It was the first new album of his that was available after I became a fan, so it holds an extra special place in my heart. But it does have that transitional sound, from TOTY to the first Catholics album. If you look at all of his solo material, from the yellow/orange album to SMYT (or Honeycomb, if we want to include that yet), and compare it to the life span of a normal human being (not saying Frank Black is finished by any means) then COR fits in that puberty phase. His first two are so playful and youthful sounding. COR finds itself changing, and finding a new footing. With the introduction of the Catholics, his albums start taking more of an adult, mature feel. There he really found his sound that could show EVERYBODY just how kick ass he really is. Cult of Ray is an excellent album, with excellent songs. Damn. Now I have to listen to it. Ah, the wonderful iPod. Instant gratification. |
| hWolsky |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 11:31:03
I'm afraid you're wrong, the worst Frank Black song is 'Jane the Queen of Love' the most horrible thing he ever wrote...
HW |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 04:13:07
Some songs are excellent: "Kicked in the taco", "The adventure and the resolution", "Shazeb Andleb". I find some others pretty crappy: "Punk Rock city" is probably the worst FB's song.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| mun chien andalusia |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 03:50:43
i always considered COR a great album much better than others like pistolero that i don't like that much. it's short and the track listing is so tight that makes it the only fb album that i never skip a song. and after all it has "kicked in the taco" and "you ain't me" in it. how can someone say that it sucks?
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
|
| whoreatthedoor |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 00:34:51
I remember I said that I like it. Cult of Ray (The song) is one of my FB fave songs.
If you fall I will catch you, I'll be waiting... |
| Jason |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 18:15:50
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
please explain that it was supposed to have more songs on it
I never heard about that
anouncement would have been nice, pray a little faster also
Someone has posted here before that American wanted Frank to pare the album down a bit from its original length. Whether this is a fact, I don't know, but in the bio for COR Frank does seem to hint at this.
To me, the recordings of "Announcement" and "Pray a Little Faster" (and "You Never Heard About Me", for that matter) don't sound like that were ever gonna be on Cult of Ray. Frank's voice is noticeably hoarse on those songs, which suggests that they were all banged out seperately from the songs slated for the album. The four songs on the Cult of Ray UK double CD sound a little more like tracks that that were under consideration for the album.
But I'm just guessing. |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 13:56:40
please explain that it was supposed to have more songs on it
I never heard about that
anouncement would have been nice, pray a little faster also
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 11:10:23
Well, it WAS originally supposed to have considerably more songs than it ended up having. Maybe it would have had a better flow with those songs on it. I guess it's also possible that those songs would have produced a WORSE flow, though.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 23:32:41
it's the sound that doesn't work for me
the songs aren't that bad in particular
but the record doesn't seem to flow
I believe it was some sort of searching of the right feeling
they captured with the catholic records
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
| Superabounder |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 22:17:06
I used to drive around and rewind men in black over and over, or impatiently wait for the marsist to end. Although i was disappointed in COR, the tour was unbelievable to me at the time as there was a stretch of about 10 songs that Frank just launched one after the other without pause and just freaking rocked. Made up for me missing the TOTY tour. |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 18:14:41
While I wouldn't rank it in the upper tier of Frank's solo work, it's still a solid album. "Men In Black" is one of my all-time favorite Frank songs.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| LBF1976 |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 16:27:37
I didn't know Frank Black had a solo career until I got CoR on tape back when it first came out. I had Surfa Rosa and CoR, that's how it all started for me, so I'll always like the album. I remember listening to Punk Rock City in my car as I drove into Washington, D.C. to my first Frank Black concert in 1997, that was the black suit tour. I can't wait for Honeycomb, I'm pretty sure that'll be my favorite CD for quite some time.
mountain rock your tomato = melting rock into metal
Floops quesedillas zijn te vergelijken met het likken van fatsige Albert's aars nadat hij een fles laxeermiddel heeft leeggedronken. |
| the tolerant |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 16:10:25
i love listening to this through headphones, with Frank recorded on the right channel and Lyle on the left, it sounds so good on the ears. Men In Black will always be one of my favourite Frank songs ever, it was on a friends compilation tape made up for me just before the album release. When I heard it for the first time it was another "Oh my God!" f**kin ecstasy like adrenalin rush moments, big cheesy smile on my face. That emotion you get when you know Franks done it again.
I think that sometimes he has such a creative spurt, songs literally pouring out of him. I'm glad he put these ones down. Love Cult of Ray. Without it there would be no Kicked in the Taco or Last Stand....as a guitar player this album was amazing and so fun to learn.
I'm wondering Jon Tivens input on CoR, seeing that he gets a "Thanks" from Frank on the inside sleeve.
Maybe if he shows up again i'll ask.
|
| dogjones |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 16:04:45
COR always struck me as 1/2 "old style" frank and 1/2 "looking for the catholics though he dont know he's supposed to be looking for them yet"
short album, chunk of instrumentals, a lot of "mood" changes from track to track...its not a hard listen, but it comes off as disjointed as a conjoined work. |
