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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
912 Posts |
 Posted - 06/16/2022 : 13:38:08
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I love Oona actually
With you on Magdalena, what a great track
What Goes Boom also sounds like a single to me
I also think Blue Eyed Hexe could have been a good comeback
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
In my opinion, Hexe should have been the lead off single. Then the full album drop, not the EP approach. A big uppercut then bam land the whole thing. I think everyone would have viewed it completely differently. Maybe not.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
Sorry: just a few more Indie Cindy thoughts.
I could see Hexe as a lead single as well (it would be my next choice), though it's worth remembering that when it came out a lot of more casual fans were complaining it sounded like AC/DC (to me it's more a descendant of U-Mass).
I had actually just re-logged in to make a similar point. Part of why it's taken a few years for IC to warm up to be as an album is that I was so used to the EPs, and then all of a sudden it was re-sequenced and repackaged with their weakest art work and a weak title. Made it a very strange entity for a while. It's only now that I've forgotten about the EPs and gotten used to the new sequence that IC feels like more of a proper album to me. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2966 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 13:45:05
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I think Bagboy was a terrific uppercut
It made everybody say WHAT!
Some fans even hated it, which I think you want a little bit
What you don’t want is comparisons to Foo Foghters and people talking about auto tune and talking about the manner in which you’re releasing the songs
They couldn’t or wouldn’t produce a whole album that matched Bagboy’s weirdness and they even edited it down from the EP to the album (removed of the “brush your teeth” chanting), so I think that was the wrong turn they made.
Bagboy and Bluefinger album both have that intensity that IC doesn’t have. Yes the songs have grown on me but it will never be anybodys favorite album or even top tier FBF I imagine |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6013 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 14:02:37
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"What you don’t want is comparisons to Foo Foghters and people talking about auto tune and talking about the manner in which you’re releasing the songs"
This sums up the whole thing. Almost 10 years ago!
I'm stoked about the new one. Slick vocals and autotune maybe. Hope not
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 14:31:16
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I agree with EVERYBODY!
Magdalena is a beautiful song. I genuinely consider it one of the best Pixies songs. It is extremely high up on the list in my mind. I sincerely can't tell any quality difference of that song with basically anything on Bossanova. If it was popped onto Bossanova and somebody who never knew the Pixies music was given that copy, I seriously don't think they'd notice that it didn't belong there or was any lesser than any other songs. Think the same about What Goes Boom, really.
I CAN'T say any of that for anything on BTE. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 14:45:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
I think Bagboy was a terrific uppercut
It made everybody say WHAT!
Some fans even hated it, which I think you want a little bit
What you don’t want is comparisons to Foo Foghters and people talking about auto tune and talking about the manner in which you’re releasing the songs
They couldn’t or wouldn’t produce a whole album that matched Bagboy’s weirdness and they even edited it down from the EP to the album (removed of the “brush your teeth” chanting), so I think that was the wrong turn they made.
Bagboy and Bluefinger album both have that intensity that IC doesn’t have. Yes the songs have grown on me but it will never be anybodys favorite album or even top tier FBF I imagine
I’m pretty much irreversibly convinced Bagboy is literally about me, or directed at me, personally. I had several direct interactions with Charles leading up to it, including a bag. But that is the least of it. I have a mountain of actual evidence. I have mixed emotions about the track, to say the least. Very cool music. But hard for me to listen to.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 15:11:19
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2966 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 15:45:04
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
I think Bagboy was a terrific uppercut
It made everybody say WHAT!
Some fans even hated it, which I think you want a little bit
What you don’t want is comparisons to Foo Foghters and people talking about auto tune and talking about the manner in which you’re releasing the songs
They couldn’t or wouldn’t produce a whole album that matched Bagboy’s weirdness and they even edited it down from the EP to the album (removed of the “brush your teeth” chanting), so I think that was the wrong turn they made.
Bagboy and Bluefinger album both have that intensity that IC doesn’t have. Yes the songs have grown on me but it will never be anybodys favorite album or even top tier FBF I imagine
I’m pretty much irreversibly convinced Bagboy is literally about me, or directed at me, personally. I had several direct interactions with Charles leading up to it, including a bag. But that is the least of it. I have a mountain of actual evidence. I have mixed emotions about the track, to say the least. Very cool music. But hard for me to listen to.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
I feel the same way about “All I Think About Now.” I’m pretty sure it’s about me.
Just kidding, Johnny I’m sure we’d love to hear anything you’d like to share |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 19:02:11
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I’ll lay it out soon. Bagboy: Behind The Music
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 21:36:03
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This may make you feel worse, johnny, but from your post I went and re-read the lyrics to Bagboy.
I just find the lyrics on most of Indie Cindy to be really ambitious, weird and fun. I feel like immediately after that album things changed and went a bit more down to earth. I still like Frank's lyrics on a lot of the songs, but the Indie Cindy stuff is really colorful and evocative and full of anger and sex and complex feelings, just like a classic Pixies song really. Just the word choices, really poetic and punk and wild. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6013 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 22:31:00
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Mixed messages from Sir Naf please authenticate
vs
Don't want to bite, don't want to spit, don't want a steak with no pepper on it
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
912 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 23:45:00
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
I’ll lay it out soon. Bagboy: Behind The Music
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
Please do!
While I generally enjoy Bagboy, I think the themes have prevented me from enjoying it. I'm not against mean-spirited songwriting whatsoever (I'm a Bob Dylan and Nick Cave fan), but it's more unusual hearing from Charles. Particularly because the object of his scorn in the song is so unclear - is it an internet poster? an actual bag boy? some combination of the two? In today's lingo it's felt to me a bit like "punching down". (Edit: maybe petty is the word I'm looking for?)
But as for the album more generally, I agree that the lyrics are more interesting on IC. |
Edited by - Brank_Flack on 06/16/2022 23:48:32 |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2411 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 00:15:30
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Clearly Kim's departure cast a shadow over the whole return to recording. And part of me wonders if they'd have been better off waiting for a permanent replacement to contribute to what had already been recorded in Rockfield.
I'm not sure the EP strategy worked that well in the long run... especially since when the album itself launched, we'd already heard it all!
Love 'Women of War' though. Sounds so fresh and playful, and the vocal interplay/Joey's huge guitar coming into the chorus is glorious.
'Oona' is one of my favourites of the whole 2.0 era, even though the guitars sound like they were recorded in a cupboard. |
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =
961 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 02:17:12
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I must try to find my posts about IC upon its release but pretty sure I've always loved the guitars and the chorus of Bagboy. Prime Pixies. Some of the lyrics are brilliant too, crock of stew, feedback loop, etc. Some bits I don't like, mostly the extended chanting and some lacklustre lyrics (listening to the voice... with your ears! - and the weird gap within the ''small talk'' line).
Looking forward to whenever Adam Buxton gets around to doing a podcast interview with BF. He mentioned he met up with BF in Wales in the same cafe that Kim announced her departure and it was only a day or two afterwards. Since the two are friends and Adam is very easygoing I'm sure BF would open up a bit more about it. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 04:45:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
In today's lingo it's felt to me a bit like "punching down"
For the love of CHRIST please let's not bring this nonsense to songwriting. Oh my god. No. |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
912 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 04:54:45
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| Haha, I understand - but it just makes me feel sorry for bag boys! Like, what did one do to deserve this scorn? More likely he's insulting someone else by calling them a bag boy? But even then, I can't help but feel sorry for the bag boys of the world! |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6013 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 05:26:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Haha, I understand - but it just makes me feel sorry for bag boys! Like, what did one do to deserve this scorn? More likely he's insulting someone else by calling them a bag boy? But even then, I can't help but feel sorry for the bag boys of the world!
We don't even have bag boys over here. I have to bag my shit myself! Feel sorry for me!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6013 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 05:27:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
In today's lingo it's felt to me a bit like "punching down"
For the love of CHRIST please let's not bring this nonsense to songwriting. Oh my god. No.
Too late man. Too late.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6013 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 05:44:36
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On topic. The snippet of Doggerel sound very 80's to me. Again in a Bossanova-fashion.
Funky like Dig for Fire and All Over The World were groovy.
There's a chimey sound, (tubular) bells or xylophone of whatever, that can be very cool.
But if it's processed with some fx it can also be very tacky.
I didn't hear it the first couple of times, when listening to the podcast
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 12:33:56
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To go back on topic, I actually really liked the Doggerel (the song) clip. Incredibly different for Pixies, very positive and funky and upbeat sounding, but it still felt Pixies to me.
To go back off topic, while I understand the motivations behind not punching down (note: I know nobody here is taking this seriously, I just like talking about the subject), like there are so many times in life where a person "beneath you" (by the way isn't that a snobbish classist way of thinking in the first place?!?) is still...a shitty awful person that you'd want to yell at or be mean to? Like I've had bag boys or grocery store people be totally terrible and rude and annoying. Definitely felt like they were crapping on my new day. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 21:50:27
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I just listened to Black Francis Live In Nijmegen.
I seriously think this is basically what the Pixies comeback should have been like. This is a ferocious, scary, fun, insane rock show. And it is so inspired. If the new Pixies albums sounded like this I don't think anybody would be scoffing or bored. It's almost kind of shocking to me that this is a solo album but the Pixies albums are so mainstream and accessible now.
I thought about this a lot tonight. I think part of the problem with BTE and their approach lately is it feels like they want every song to be some sort of hit single. But Pixies albums had so many weird experimental thrashy crazy surprising things. This Black Francis live show is full of that. Imagine a Pixies album with Do What You Want, Get Away Oil, Dead Mans Curve, I Sent Away, Last Night the Wolves Came out, etc, etc...it's literally the Loud Quiet Loud Pixies dynamic.
My friend had a "theory" about Doolittle, which is for much of the album it's Single - Weird shit - Single - Weird shit - Single - Weird shit.
I think that's what makes Doolittle such a stand out, it appeals to both the weirdos and the folks who just love a good tune.
I think that is what's missing lately. |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 06/17/2022 22:23:04 |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6013 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 23:04:30
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You are absolutely right. KEEP THE PIXIES WEIRD!
I do think FBF enjoys it that the band and Tom pushes him into a new pop territory
But I saw a 7 minutes version of Venus in Furs by Paz on her own. With some great violin playing and looping.
I would love more of that side of her in Pixies.
BTW
I saw FBF on that tour in the Netherlands. There was one with Charles Normal and Ding and that was amazing.
Such a great energy. Around Bluefinger. A tour later it was with Dan Schimdt (?) on bass and FBF on guitar.
It was very tame. SVN FNGRS Tour and I have some bad memories attached to it too.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
851 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2022 : 23:55:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
This may make you feel worse, johnny, but from your post I went and re-read the lyrics to Bagboy.
I just find the lyrics on most of Indie Cindy to be really ambitious, weird and fun. I feel like immediately after that album things changed and went a bit more down to earth. I still like Frank's lyrics on a lot of the songs, but the Indie Cindy stuff is really colorful and evocative and full of anger and sex and complex feelings, just like a classic Pixies song really. Just the word choices, really poetic and punk and wild.
^This. The song writing on What Goes Boom, Bagboy and some other IC tracks was complex and unique. While there are a few songs per 2.0 album that are fairly complex the majority of BF’s lyrics are pretty banal and not challenging at all for the listener. Kinda miss him going a bit deeper on songs. But it’s been an issue for me since the FB&theCs turn towards more Americana type stuff and away from the UFOs and other more interesting (to me) topics. I’m not judging too harshly as they are older and wiser and likely more settled and less angsty and ambitious. But as a fan I certainly feel like the newer stuff has much less staying power and is less rewarding of repeat listens, specifically with relation to the lyrics. I can enjoy the music but whereas in Pixies 1.0 Charles might’ve made a cryptic verse with various imagery and oddities now we get a line about a bar, maybe a mention of a town in France and then…..CHORUS!!!
Not sure if Charles just wants to keep it simple and straightforward these days or if the producer and band mates aren’t challenging him enough to maybe take a few more passes at the words. But yeah, it’s missing something to me.
That said, he clearly is still prolific and can write quality songs that are appealing. I love Graveyard Hill, Um Chagga Lagga, Daniel Boone, What Goes Boom. All interesting, clever lyrics that can put you in a new place or mood. He can still do it on a high level, just not as consistently. I for one would definitely be in favor of seeing what the band could do with another producer. |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
912 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 01:56:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
To go back on topic, I actually really liked the Doggerel (the song) clip. Incredibly different for Pixies, very positive and funky and upbeat sounding, but it still felt Pixies to me.
Yes, I thought it sounded promising too. After all the flack Tom has taken here in the last few pages, I imagine this is the song he gave advice to Charles to avoid playing an overtly funky style - and if so, it was a good suggestion! It reaches a nice mid-point between funky and eerie. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 02:06:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I just listened to Black Francis Live In Nijmegen.
I seriously think this is basically what the Pixies comeback should have been like. This is a ferocious, scary, fun, insane rock show. And it is so inspired. If the new Pixies albums sounded like this I don't think anybody would be scoffing or bored. It's almost kind of shocking to me that this is a solo album but the Pixies albums are so mainstream and accessible now.
Frank Black in Nijmegen stands as I my Number 1 FBF live experience - but not that gig, the one just before it in 2007 - the tour where he put the guitar down and just bounced around the stage screaming to heavy punk rock guitars provided by Charles Normal.
It was defintely a golden era. I guess others will say that was the Catholics era and they're probably right too - but I kind of took a sabbatical when they were doing the rounds.
As much I like the general direction the band is going right now I feel it is bit fake and all about preserving the Pixies sound and milking it for commercial success - whereas the Bluefinger era was pure rock n roll in it's rawest form - it was a newly formed band coming together and finding a synergy that worked and rolling with it. Had they been a bunch of young lads in their early twenties starting out they might have had better success with those albums?
Quite an odd career path to take really - reform your original band (one of the biggest bands of the indie rock world) and then churn out a series of really great albums under your own name with a different band that don't get the same recognition they deserve. |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1075 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 07:40:06
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| Love the Live in Nijmegen album. Those versions of All Around the World and Burnt Out Rock and Roll are amazing. Love when one guy in the crowd shouts for Pixies songs he basically says no goddam effing pixies ha! |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 09:19:44
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It sounds like a girl, and he goes "We're not gonna play the fucking god damn Pixies, that's for sure."
It just is so weird that the Pixies became the mainstream one in the end. Not even just the songwriting but even how Frank is singing on his solo stuff, it's more wild and weird and emotional and intense. It was actually inspiring me a lot, I want to make a crazy unrestrained rock album now...(my last one was supposed to be that but it's not at all compared to Live in Nijmegen.)
Regarding his lyrics, see the thing about the Catholics, once I accepted it, I actually really liked that his lyrics got more down to earth and folky and about heartbreak and traveling. Because the Catholics material scratches a different itch for me. I really connect with a lot of those songs.
But I think after Indie Cindy the Pixies lyrics started blending with the Catholics style and I'm not sure my brain can comprehend it. I really love how Indie Cindy lyrics are so weird and mysterious and they also have a great rhythm to them, they bounce around in your ears. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2966 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 10:15:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
The Grindsman is another fave that is homeless
I come here every day for like over a decade, how did I miss this song??
Any others I don't know about??
Also, where can little ol' me hear the What Goes Boom demo, and others?
Do you like Rocket USA? Great song for this time of year. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 10:16:46
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| Not familiar... |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 10:34:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Not familiar...
NSE outtake. I don’t know if there was a bonus track version it was on or what. It’s on YouTube though. I kind of forgot about it. It’s a banger in the same vibe as Corrina and Six Legged Man. Wish it had made the cut. It slaps as the kids say.
https://youtu.be/5mLi2lwLzao
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1075 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 11:56:43
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| Rocket USA, Suicide cover. I seem to recall Frank interviewing Alan Vega (he was a big fan) around that time but can't find any mention of it now. Great band. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 12:25:43
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Oh, while I do love many of his covers, I'm far more interested in originals.
NSE is a whole other topic. I really dislike that album and I've always been angry some great songs were really badly produced. I kind of see it as his solo career petering out in a sad way. Oh well. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 12:57:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Oh, while I do love many of his covers, I'm far more interested in originals.
NSE is a whole other topic. I really dislike that album and I've always been angry some great songs were really badly produced. I kind of see it as his solo career petering out in a sad way. Oh well.
It’s a mixed bag for me (we just can’t stay on topic around here!! ) not wild about the production either - it’s weirdly flat. Actually I’d blame the engineering, mixing, and mastering. Splitting hairs maybe. I think a remix and remaster would work wonders. Some of the songs aren’t really my bag. Title track, when I go down on you, lake of sin (Seeee-iiiinnnnn). But others are top notch. Cinema Star is fantastic, I think. Corrina and Six legged man both rock.
I can’t agree with that being a last gasp or something though. Golem came after and I think it’s amazing. The edited version, that is. It’s fresh sounding both in terms of the songwriting and performances. Lots of great tracks on that one. I like it more than any of the Pixies albums that followed. And I don’t dislike any of those. I can see how it might not be everyone’s cup of tea though.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6013 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 13:16:45
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Come on, The Golem came before Non Stop Erotik
And I also think of it as a solo career stopper
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 13:25:46
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While I'm off topic, NSE thoughts:
Lake Of Sin - kind of like the whole album, something just feels "off" here for me. I can't get into the song.
O My Tidy Sum - pretty and nice, I like it, but track 2? It feels like the album's already out of energy.
Rabbits - I think this is a great song ruined by bad production/choices
Wheels - I have like no memory of this. Is it a cover? Track 4 a cover? This feels more like an oddities collection than album.
Dead Man's Curve - what I think is one of his all time greatest songs just utterly ruined by terrible production/arrangement
Six Legged Man - This is more like it. This captures that SVN FNGRS vibe to me. Like it a lot. Unfortunately I'm so tuned out of this album by this point that I never really think about this one.
Wild Son - I had to actually youtube this to remember what it was. This is refreshingly weird and cool, and I like it, but again, I feel this is an ABBABBUBBA outtake (I LIKE those songs, but you know what I mean.)
When I Go Down On You - no
Nonstoperotik - somehow more no
Cinema Star - It's like a worse version of When They Come To Murder Me. A friend told me that Cinema Star "reminds me of your songwriting style" which was an odd and insanely accurate comment. I get what he means and I kind of took it as both a compliment and an insult. I just think Frank can do better. Better than me.
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2022 : 13:26:33
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Come on, The Golem came before Non Stop Erotik
And I also think of it as a solo career stopper
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Okay I must be mistaken. But I still really dig it.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Doggerel
